1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. Save Muppet Central Radio
    Within days Muppet Central Radio could be off the air. Show your support and save the station by listening via Radionomy's website and apps. We're also on iTunes and Apple TV. Learn More

The Muppet Show - Zoot Endings

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by BlueFrackle, Dec 15, 2002.

  1. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Member

    Alex, thanks for naming the episode. I do have a complete list somewhere of the Muppet Shows in the order that they were filmed; I'll try to post it here if I can find it again. That will tell us which episode followed Kaye Ballard, and if they ever followed up on it.
     
  2. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member

    no part 2

    I know they neveer followed up on that story.
    Kermit appearently got the band to come back "between episodes" but it's not brought up agian during the show.
     
  3. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member

    next episode...

    To answer the next question:

    The episode to follow #: 23- Kay Ballard was #24: - Mummenschanz.
    no band subplot...

    Any one else find it odd how on the The TimeLife versions they put the Mummenschanz episode AFTER the Madeline Kahn episode (#33). These epiodes I know, aren't meant to be placed togethert, However if they are "Mummenschanz" should def. come first because it sets up the the plot of Gonzo having a crush on Piggy and in "Madeline Kahn" Gonzo tells Piggy how he's over her.

    Just something ODD I noticed

    Plus the fact that on the disc/tapes and covers
    "Mummenschanz" IS before "Madeline Kahn" but on the back is the actually running order. of "Madeline Kahn" THEN "Mummenschanz".

    Did they orinally intend to put them in somewhat of a story arch then forget about it?
     
  4. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Well... I can't say I know many of these.. but I do have the Disney released "Meet the Muppets" video. ZSoot (I forgot what color suit he's in) Blows a note from his sax, lifts his head slightly and looks at nothing, and nods a sign of approval, like he's proud of it.
     
  5. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member

    Sax and Violence

    That "Zoot"is from "sax and Violence"a musical segment featuring Zoot and Mah Nah Ma Nah (Do Do Do Do Do) ..(couldn't resist)
     
  6. BlueFrackle

    BlueFrackle Active Member

    Guys,

    So has anyone been able to come up with some kind of list ?



    See ya
     
  7. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Member

    Chris, thanks for the info, but now I'm more confused than ever. I have the Mummenschanz episode from Time-Life, and there IS no follow-up. Why on Earth would they do that? Were they planning to make a season-ending cliffhanger, then realized they had no control over its airdate and just abandoned it?

    This must be the story from "The Muppet Show Book" where the band is "anklin' ". I thought it had an ending in that book, but then I remembered: Floyd said the band had a new act that was so strange even they didn't understand it. Kermit, somewhat nervously (sarcastically?) said, "Oh, good. I can hardly wait to see it." And that was where it ended in the book. Pretty odd.

    I noticed what you meant about Mummenschanz and Madeline Khan. I guessed they moved Madeline Kahn up in the rotation because they figured more people would want to see her (and might turn off the tape by the time Mummenschanz comes around). It does work much better continuity-wise if they kept the original order, though.

    I have to see Meet the Muppets again--it sounds like the same Zoot clip used on Nick. I didn't realize Mahna Mahna appeared in any other numbers besides his self-titled one in the Juliet Prowse episode. Were there any other appearances of him in a production number or backstage scene (not counting background appearances)?
     
  8. anathema

    anathema Active Member

    There wasn't a 'set' running order to the shows so far I can tell. They get screened in various different orders, depending on the channel and country. Even in the UK, where the show ostensibly ran on network TV, different regions ran the episodes in different orders. The shows were taped in roughly the order of the production codes, although this sometimes varied (for example, I'm pretty certain the Gene Kelly show was the last to be taped, but it has the first production code of the fifth season block).

    Floyd's comment about the new act actually refers to the new theme he's written for the show, and that Kermit wouldn't understand it. Have a flip through the episode guide - it's all in there. :)

    Mahna Mahna appeared in an 'At the Dance' segment somewhere early in the first season, but it's probably just a background appearance, and I *think* I've seen him in something else as well, but I can't remember where. 'Sax & Violence' comes from the Connie Stevens show, BTW.

    As for continuity, well! Scooter's introduction is in the show with Jim Nabors, by which point he's already appeared in at least one other show (if you go by production order). The episode guide at Kermitage has an almost complete list of transmission dates, but I don't know for which channel/country, and it omits Kaye Ballard, Mummenschanz and most of season 2. I'm hopefully getting a more comprehensive list in at some point in the next few months...
     
  9. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Member

    Thanks, Alex. I did flip through the episode guide, but it still doesn't explain anything. I can understand it if Floyd was just trying to change the theme, and Kermit wouldn't have it. But the way everyone is talking here, the band LEFT FOREVER at the end of the episode, with Kermit waving goodbye and everything -- and then they were back the next week. Am I the only one who finds that strange?

    I know they had other "hiccups" in the continuity, but at least I knew the reasons behind them. Scooter was introduced in the Jim Nabors episode because it occurred to them after they already started production that they should have an "introductory" episode. However, by most accounts the Jim Nabors episode is really not all that good. So they filmed a few more episodes without Scooter altogether, so that one of THOSE could be the first episode. (Not sure how many. Anyone?) In the end, it didn't matter, because it turned out they had no control over the airing order, anyway.

    Thanks for the Mahna Mahna information. In case anyone is interested, here's a complete list of taping dates (if not airing dates, as those varied from region to region anyway). Pay no attention to the asterisks; that was done for my own purposes, to keep track of which episodes I have on tape.

    Muppet Show Taping Dates
    (according to production files)
    Celebrity Date (week of)
    Connie Stevens #2 Jan 19 - 21,30, Feb. 1,1976
    Juliet Prowse #1 Jan 29 - 31, Feb.1, 1976 *
    Joel Grey #3 May 18 - 20, 1976
    Ruth Buzzi #4 May 25 - 27, 1976
    Harvey Korman #10 May 27, 1976
    Rita Moreno #5 June 3, 1976 *
    Jim Nabors #6 June 8, 1976
    Florence Henderson #7 June 15,16, 1976
    Paul Williams #8 June 22 - 24, 1976
    Charles Aznavour #9 June 29 - July 1, 1976
    Lena Horne #11 July13 - 15, 1976
    Peter Ustinov #12 July 20 - 22, 1976
    Bruce Forsyth #13 July 27 - 28, Aug. 5, 1976
    Sandy Duncan #14 August 3 - 5, 1976
    Candy Bergen #15 August 10 - 11, 1976
    Avery Schreiber #16 September 28, 1976
    Ben Vereen #17 October 4 - 7, 1976
    Phyllis Diller #18 October 11 - 14, 1976
    Vincent Price #19 October 19 - 21, 1976 *
    Valerie Harper #20 October 26- 28, 1976
    Twiggy #21 November 9 - 11, 1976
    Ethel Merman #22 November 16 - 18, 1976
    Kaye Ballard #23 November 23 - 26, 1976
    Mummenschanz #24 November 23 - 26, 1976 *

    Year 2
    Don Knotts #25 May 23 - 25, 1977 *
    Zero Mostel #26 May 31 - June 2, 1977
    Milton Berle #27 June 9 -11, 1977
    Rich Little #28 June 14 - 16, 1977
    Judy Collins #29 June 21-23, October 19,1977
    Nancy Walker #30 June 28 - 30, 1977
    Teresa Brewer #46 July 12, 1977
    Edgar Bergen #31 July 12 -15, 1977 *
    Steve Martin #32 July 19 - 21, 1977 *
    Madeline Kahn #33 July 26 - 28, 1977 *
    George Burns #34 August 2 - 5, 1977 *
    Dom Deluise #35 August 9 - 11, 1977 *
    John Cleese #47 August 9 - 11, 1977 *
    Bernadette Peters #36 August 16 - 18, 1977
    Rudi Nureyev #37 October 18 - 21, 1977 *
    Elton John #38 October 25 - 27, 1977 *
    Lou Rawls #39 November 1 - 4, 1977
    Cleo Lane #40 November 8 - 10, 1977
    Bob Hope #45 November 22, 1977 *
    Julie Andrews #41 November 23 - 25, 1977 *
    Jaye P. Morgan #42 November 29 - Dec. 2, 1977
    Peter Sellers #43 December 6 - 9, 1977 *
    Cloris Leachman #48 December 6 - 9, 1977
    Petula Clark #44 December 13 - 16, 1977

    Year 3
    Kris Kristoferson/ Rita Coolidge #49 February 14 -16, 1978
    Leo Sayer #50 February 21-23, 1978
    Roy Clark #51 Feb. 28 - Mar. 02, 1978
    Gilda Radner #52 March 7 - 9, 1978 *
    Pearl Bailey #53 March 14 - 16, 1978 *
    Jean Stapleton #54 March 21 - 23, 1978
    Alice Cooper #55 March 28 - 30, 1978 *
    Loretta Lynn #56 April 4 - 7, 1978 *
    Liberace #57 April 11 - 13, 1978 *
    Marisa Berensen #58 April 18 - 20, 1978
    Racquel Welch #59 April 25 - 27, 1978 *
    James Coco #60 May 2 -5, 1978
    Cheryl Ladd #72 May 9 - 12, 1978
    Helen Reddy #61 May 9 - 12, 1978
    Harry Belafonte #62 November 8 -10, 1978 *
    Lesley Ann Warren #63 November 14 -16, 1978
    Danny Kaye # 64 November 21 - 23, 1978 *
    Spike Milligan #65 December 12 -14, 1978
    Leslie Uggams #66 December 5 - 7, 12, 1978
    Elke Sommer #67 December 12 - 14, 1978
    Sylvester Stallone #68 January 9 - 11, 1979 *
    Roger Miller #69 January 16 - 18, 1979
    Roy Rogers and Dale Evans #70 January 23 - 25, 1979 *
    Lynn Redgrave #71 January 30 - February 1, 1979

    Year 4
    John Denver #73 April 24 - 26, 1979 *
    Crystal Gale #74 May 1 - 4, 1979
    Shields & Yarnell #75 May 8 - 11, 1979
    Dyan Cannon #76 May 15 - 17, 1979
    Victor Borge #77 May 22 - 24, 1979
    Linda Lavin #78 May 29 - 31, 1979 *
    Dudley Moore #79 June 12 - 14, 1979 *
    Arlo Guthrie #80 June 19 - 21, 1979
    Beverly Sills #81 June 26 - 28, 1979 *
    Kenny Rogers #82 July 3 - 5, 1979 *
    Lola Falana #83 July 10 - 12, 1979 *
    Phyllis George #84 July 17 - 19, 1979 *
    Dizzy Gillespie #85 July 24, October 29 - November 1, 1979
    Liza Minelli #86 July 30 - August 2, 1979 *
    Anne Murray # 87 January 8 - 11, 1980
    Jonathan Winters #88 January 15 -18, 1980 *
    Mark Hamill # 89 January 15 - 18, 1980 *
    Christopher Reeve #90 January 22 - 25, 1980 *
    Lynda Carter #91 January 29 - 31, 1980 *
    Andy Williams #94 January 29 - February 1, 1980
    Doug Henning #93 February 4 - 8, 1980
    Carol Channing #92 February 11 - 16, 1980
    Alan Arkin #95 February 11 - 16, 1980
    Diana Ross #96 February 18 - 22, 1980

    Year 5
    Loretta Swit #98 March 10 - 13, 1980
    Joan Baez #99 March 17 - 20, 1980
    Shirley Bassey #100 March 24 - 27, 1980
    James Coburn #101 April 1 - 3, 1980 *
    Brooke Shields #102 April 7 - 10, 1980 *
    Glenda Jackson #103 April 21 - 24, 1980
    Senor Wences #104 April 28 - May 2, 1980 *
    Roger Moore April 29 - May 2, 1980 *
    Jean Pierre Rampal #106 May 12 - 15, 1980
    Paul Simon #107 May 19 - 23, 1980 *
    Linda Ronstadt #119 May 27 - 30, 1980 *
    Tony Randall #109 June 3 - 5, 1980 *
    Mac Davis #110 June 16 -19, 1980 *
    Carol Burnett #111 June 23 - 27, 1980 *
    Melissa Manchester #108 July 1 - 4, 1980
    Gladys Knight #112 July 3 -7, 1980
    Hal Linden #113 July 8 - 10, 1980 *
    Marty Feldman #114 July 14 - 17, 1980 *
    Wally Boag #116 July 28 - 31, August 1, 1980
    Debbie Harry #105 August 4 - 6, 1980
    Chris Langham #115 August 5 - 8, 1980
    Johnny Cash #117 August 11- 15, 1980 *
    Buddy Rich #118 August 11 - 15, 1980
    Gene Kelly #97 August 19 - 21, 1980 *
     
  10. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member

    hmmm

    Just suprised how few are actually shot out of order.. Seems like the 1st season was shot out of order then any other season.
     
  11. ZootSaxPlayer

    ZootSaxPlayer Member

    Can someone please send me the ITC screenshots from the end of the Harry Belafonte, Roger Miller, Dudley Moore, and Mac Davis episodes? Thank you!
     
  12. Whatnot1988

    Whatnot1988 Active Member

    On YouTube, I saw the original closing credits to the Cleo Laine episode, and the Zoot ending had a logo identical to the one shown on my avatar. Since the credits were left-alligned, I assume this is the UK ending.

    I too, would love to see the post- season 2 and episode-specific ATV/ITC closings. I've already seen the Kaye Ballard closing.
     
  13. David French

    David French Active Member

    Just so there's no confusion over any of this, each season of TMS would use the same end shot of Zoot - seasons one and two he is hatless; seasons three to five he is wearing his hat.

    I think Chilly Down is getting confused with the close-up of Floyd during the end credits of Season Two which shows him blinking and wearing his hat, even though he is hatless throughout the rest of the credits.

    The end shot of Zoot is missing from some episodes of TMS where the end was intentionally changed to keep in with the theme of the show. I will elaborate further at a later time.
     
  14. David French

    David French Active Member

    As I was saying, here is a list of the changes made to the Zoot endings...

    Kaye Ballard - for this episode Rowlf is forced to play the end theme by himself following the departure of the house band (*not* the Electric Mayhem). The original ending, which is missing from the DVD, shows Rowlf looking nervously at the camera while Nigel bows to the audience.

    Loretta Lynn - the final shot is meant to be of the house band at the railroad station. Again, this is missing from the DVD.

    Harry Belafonte - the final note is played onstage by one of the African-masked puppets. From memory, it's the one performed by Jerry Nelson.

    Roger Miller - chicken-Zoot plays the final note. Later syndicated versions removed the original final shots of the orchestra pit and Zoot playing the final note; these are missing from the DVD.

    Dudley Moore - When Animal hits MAMA, it plays the final note and then Animal falls to the ground as though he has been electrocuted.

    Mac Davis - the final note is played by one of the Beakers. As with the Roger Miller episode, later versions edited out the final shots of the orchestra pit and Beaker playing the final note.

    Whew! Any questions?
     
  15. ZootSaxPlayer

    ZootSaxPlayer Member

    Can you please upload some screenshots of these alternate Zoot endings?
     
  16. Whatnot1988

    Whatnot1988 Active Member

    There is a screenshot of the Kaye Ballard ending in the episode guide on this site.

    Does anyone know the ending for the Spike Milligan episode (the one with the "Small World" ending)?
     
  17. David French

    David French Active Member

    Sadly not, as I don't have off-air copies of those episodes.
     
  18. David French

    David French Active Member

    Same as the DVD; after the shot of Statler and Waldorf singing we cut to the regular end titles.

    I've got that ending on VHS, however I don't have the facilities to do screencaps.
     
  19. MuppetDanny

    MuppetDanny Well-Known Member

    It ends with the normal shot of Zoot:
    [​IMG]

    Also here's the shot for Loretta Lynn's episode:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. David French

    David French Active Member

    Danny are you able to provide a screencap for the ITC or ATV endings for any of the following - Lynn Redgrave, Roger Miller, Roy Rogers & Dale Evans?

    I'm wanting to check the copyright dates for each, as my memory is the last two have the copyright date 1979 and I can't remember if it's the same for Lynn Redgrave.
     


Share This Page