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The Muppets is Brainwashing Our Kids

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by MrBloogarFoobly, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I disagree somewhat. True, environmentalism isn't the main goal of the film, but it's clearly implied several times that he wants to destroy the theater for oil profits. Even if they had kept his childhood plotline in tact, the fact that he's an oil baron wouldn't suddenly become irrelevant to his motivations.

    Again, it's surprising to me that we're all responding to Fox News by saying, "Oh no, no, there's no liberal message at all!" Why are we trying so hard to back away from that?
  2. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I really think Tex should have been a greedy land developer and instead of oil, luxury condos... but then that would be far too similar to Ms. Bitterman's motives in VMX (and there's a lot of similarities to it as it is).

    The thing that bugs me, it's more of a Neo-Con thing than a true conservative thing. Since a lot of conservatives are Christian (though Christians aren't exclusively conservative), I'm surprised no one ever mentions that unbridled greed and gluttony are considered the top sins. Tex didn't represent just a wealthy guy, he represented a greedy guy who wants more at the risk of losing some and taking others down in the process. Not here nor there do the Muppets invent a new fuel or some sort of Muppet Labs device to pull the oil out of the ground without damaging the studios (I actually was half expecting Bunsen and Beaker to come out near the end of the movie and propose such an idea)... the message isn't so much alternatives to oil, but rather greedy pursuits, especially one aimed at the expense of others, is not a moral way to make money.

    I could very well say the same for Ducktales, Scrooge McDuck worked hard to gain his fortune, after coming from modest means, and does not make profit on anything illegal or immoral. He values the money as an accomplishment far over its monetary value (his most precious possession is the first dime he ever made... there's an even longer story behind that I don't want to get into) And often times, he finds that family and friends are more important than mere treasures.... meanwhile Flintheart Glomgold's pursuits are far more immoral and competitive... he wants to destroy his rival, Scrooge McDuck and even hired criminals (the Beagle Boys) in those attempts. He is never happy, unless he's gloating over the misery of others, and he's a completely rotten miserly miserable person.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  3. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Many would prefer not to think about it. ;)

    Exactly. Fox News is correct that the film has a critical attitude towards corporate greed. And that's a good thing.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  4. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah... after all, when you're head is a multi-billionare who wants to buy up every media outlet in the world, that's the point they're driving home... plus it's Fox Business, and only greedy corporate types LOVE that stuff.

    I get why its a Neo-Con issue, but when it comes to traditional conservative values based on biblical teachings, I'm completely lost.

    But besides the point I also want to tackle this:

    If that actually is the case (and I quoted that before), it's VERY juvenile.

    Do I hate Kelsey Grammar for launching a conservative entertainment channel and therefore despise the show Frasier, Sideshow Bob, his role in Teacher's Pet the Movie or Toy Story 2? Of course not.

    Do I think John Ratzenbergger should be banned from Pixar movies because he's with the Tea Party? Perish the thought!

    Do I disown and condemn B.B. King for performing at the Bush White house? No way Jose!

    How about Ben Stein? He's a conservative commentator, surely I'd have problems with that. Pfffft! And hate on the guy from Ferris Bueler's Day off, the very boring guy from Animaniacs, The Pixies from Fairly Oddparents, that psychiatrist from The Mask (reprising his role for the cartoon), and the sad old man that science left Bunsen? Actually...heh... he's my favorite conservative commentator, and a model for the rest of them. He argues his point in a way that you can disagree with him, but he doesn't come off disagreeable.

    Some celebrities take sides, some politicians just like celebrities. Kermit and Fozzie were guests of Fox News and welcomed like anyone else. Sure, there's a vendetta against Sesame Street, but that's purely because it's on PBS.
  5. 12Medbe

    12Medbe Active Member

    Let's just pay no attention to Fox News. They're like a school (any kind of school bully) getting fired up at what they do or say just provides them strength to keep doing it and doing it (whatever The Bully does).

    Let's just ignore Fox News.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  6. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Though to be fair, Ben Stein recently said he did not have any problem taxing the rich. He said there's no indication it would hurt the economy to do so, in fact it's been done several times before.
  7. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Guess I saw a different movie. Tex continually expressed a personal distaste for the Muppets throughout the film and he he had no real sense of humor (until being hit in the head during the closing credits) so that was actually his motive. :search:

    If there was any green message SHOW ME! I was waiting for it the entire picture!
  8. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    And the constant references to his being an oil baron was irrelevant? Not to mention the joke that Kermit had been deceived into thinking he's just a wealthy "philanthropist" when he was really going to tear the theater down? Nowadays you can't pick "oil baron" as your bad guy's profession and then say "but it means nothing."

    This a Hollywood movie. Again especially nowadays, that community does not label a character "oil baron" unless they mean for it to be a BAD thing. ;)

    The Muppets were clearly picking on corporate greed. Strange how we're trying to deny it...
  9. We Got Us

    We Got Us Active Member

    I think the discussion of whether it's political is completely ridiculous. It's a movie. Ok, he's an oil baron. The point is not that he's in oil or that he wants the oil under the theater, it's that only a very rich man would have the power to put the Muppets out of business. I don't remember Kermit suggesting we tax him or singing an ode to Liberalism. I'm a conservative with extremely conservative family, and no one thought that about the in the three times we watched it. It's just political crap out there to get people steamed. I wish of all things they'd leave the Muppets out of it. Next thing you know the left-wing's gonna choose Pepe the Prawn as their mascot. Bleh :(
  10. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    And movies never make political statements? ;)

    He goes out of his way to say he wants the oil under the theater. And it's a Hollywood movie. They're not going to use that label as a positive thing.

    It's ironic. People here are saying they dislike Fox News so much. Yet they're going out of their way to prove the Muppets would never try to be liberal...

    We're acting more conservative about this than Fox News ever did!
  11. We Got Us

    We Got Us Active Member

    All I'm trying to prove is that Jason Segel/whoever else wrote the story did not mean it as a political cannon. At least, I seriously doubt it. I think they could have a picked any movie and found some way it was Left wing/right wing, evil, brainwashing etc. So I think both Fox News and anyone else that tries to use something completely unrelated to politics as an excuse to make the other political party look like manipulative freaks who target small children with subliminal messaging. And let me rephrase that first part. It's a Muppet movie.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  12. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    B-friggin-S. I'm calling complete Shenanigans on your statement in full.

    The rich guy as bad guy is a common plot device used in film and literature for years. You might as well go after The Muppet Movie's Doc Hopper for exposing the evils of franchises and big business, Muppet Christmas Carol for Scrooge being an evil rich guy or how about we go after Muppets From Space for its liberal anti-government message in how a xenophobic secret institution treats an alien Muppet. And should we bring up wealthy, cigar-chomping JP Grosse's treatment of the hard-working vaudevillian cast of the Muppet Show?

    The Muppets make fun of everybody and people in power positions often get their comeuppance. This is nothing new in the world of entertainment since before the time of Shakespeare! Any financial motive in the film was employed as a thin plot device. The television executive was more actively driven by profit than Tex. In fact, I actually would have liked to see some sort of anti-corporation/green message actually in the film. Environmentalism was very important to Jim Henson and that theme began saturating much of his work toward the end of his life.

    But keep your usual contrarian point of view on the matter. I disagree with it 100%
    Duke Remington and Bannanasketch like this.
  13. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    And that character's motivation is greed. And there's a reason it's so common. Because throughout history the common people have been oppressed by the wealthy.

    I'm not going after it. I'm praising it for exposing such evils. And this movie too.

    ...Are you going after it?
  14. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Um. Apparently you saw a different "Muppets" movie than I did so I'm going to discontinue my involvement in your comments that make no sense to me other than to argue for the sake of argument. I'll still continue to post here, but please feel free to quote other people, just please not me. Once again your posts seem baseless to me and I feel no need to feed that particular beast. It's pointless. Have a good Christmas.
  15. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Merry Christmas to you too. And the Muppets have never been afraid to be liberal. You shouldn't be either. ;)
  16. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    To clarify, I'm not saying the movie's a big protest rally or anything, lol. ;) Clearly it's not. I'm just saying the bad guy is very obviously a wealthy man motivated by greed. Even if he had other motivations, greed was still one of them. Not all wealthy people are like that but many are and always have been. Now here comes Fox News claiming that The Muppets was insulting capitalism. No, not all. The Muppets were insulting corporate greed.
    We Got Us likes this.
  17. We Got Us

    We Got Us Active Member

    Well I agree with you that far. I guess I would have a hard time swallowing the Muppets pushing any sort of political viewpoint. Especially one I couldn't agree with. I always use them as my escape from that crud, so the whole idea just screams wrong to me. Maybe that's immature. Either way, I hate the mean-spirited discussions that come of political arguments. :)
    heralde and frogboy4 like this.
  18. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I don't even like calling it a "political viewpoint." They were simply protesting greed where it exists. I don't think anyone would object to that. :)

    Me too. :)
    We Got Us likes this.
  19. We Got Us

    We Got Us Active Member

    Thank you heralde. Greed I am totally, absolutely and completely against. Capitalism is a different thing. I think the Muppets have that much sense too. If only Fox News did. ;) But I digress.
  20. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Yeah I don't think you can say the Muppets are anti capitalist when they used to do so many commercials and made money for several major companies, hehe. ;)

    But they would be against wealthy individuals who put money ahead of morality. :)
    We Got Us likes this.

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