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Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by MikeWatt, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. sidcrowe

    sidcrowe Well-Known Member

    punkNpuppets, scarecroe...

    First off....I DON'T go to church.

    But, walk into any church for which this special is about (Christmas), and you'll find God depicted as a white male with a beard.

    So, having a black woman play God is so totally different that it screws with your head too much....for THIS type of a production.

    I found the character of God to be capricious and rude.

    It was a Hollywood "Ha ha! Bet ya didn't see that coming!" kinda trip.

    I'm not saying it is wrong to imagine God as a black woman, it's just that the writers did so merely to stand your expectations on their heads.

    Including God in your story is a risky business. The best I ever saw was George Burns with John Denver in "Oh God!"

    The writers chose a black woman to shock people.



    But, the "God" character was played like a jerk; it was dishonest and contrived.

    I don't think Jim Henson would've added a "God" character. I'm not aware of any time when he ever did.

    I know I squawked a great deal on another thread about Snoop Dogg's inclusion in the first cut of the special, what with him releasing a porno tape so close to this special's release, and his history with an L.A. gang. So now you want to insinuate that I'm a racist. That's a pretty heavy charge, don't you think?

    I wouldn't care if the person was orange; the "God " character was hardly sweet, and it is a Christmas special, is it not?

    Please don't blame me for over 2000 years of history depicting God as a white man :confused:
  2. scarecroe

    scarecroe Well-Known Member

    Re: Oh boy...

    My favorite gay reference has to be in Muppets From Space when Gonzo is explaining to Kermit that he didn't ask to be this way and that he knows how hard it might be for Kermit to accept him. Not that it implied that Gonzo was gay, but the mirroring concept was a nice addition.
    It would have to be something pretty significant for me to censor my daughter from seeing something. My mother never allowed my siblings and I to watch Tom & Jerry when growing up because she thought they were too violent. I watch those shorts today and find them absolutely brilliant and wish I hadn't been deprived. I don't think I'd have had a problem deciding whether or not it was right to cut off a cat's tail and paint it red.
    Note how NONE of those things were family projects.
  3. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Actually, I'm 28, but if you want to say I'm 22 we'll go with that. People often mistake me for a teenager in public so I am certainly not offended. ;) I don't think my age has ever been stated here.

    I understand what you're saying about the compilation of data, but "she is hot" has no relevance in my eyes. Throwing that out of the list would make for a much stronger case. I'd still let my niece and nephew watch it. And I don't think kids should be watching any television alone unless they are pre-approved tapes or programs. Remember, this was TV G, not TVY or one of those other ratings for tots. But I do get what you mean. From the past several years you'd think the Muppets would be more kid-friendly. I am glad they've grown some teeth with this special.
  4. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Dude, youre 28? I SWEAR I thought you were 24 LOL
  5. Natalie

    Natalie Well-Known Member

    I totally agree with Luke and punknpuppets. Yes, the movie disturbed me a bit. But that was only because it was seeing the muppets doing some of the things they were doing. Getting beyond that, how many of us would actually think any of it was inappropriate if it hadn't been a muppet movie at all and it was people saying things like "sucks" and being at a rave? It wasn't a family movie, which was a shame, but there were good ole muppet values in it (Everyone matters, the kermit statue, the positive attitude about the theater, etc.). The good thing is, it didn't push it too far, and I don't think the JHC will ever let the muppets become completely out of reach for children.

    Also, I noticed that the movie just took place at night (with the exception of the "heaven" scenes). This could have turned off some children. I know when I was little, if a movie was too dark, it just plain seemed scarier, even if it was made for all audiences. So Jessica, did you actually ask your daughter what parts of the movie bothered her and made it unappealing?
  6. FellowWLover

    FellowWLover Well-Known Member

    All interesting. I guess I wonder about the financial sense in not trying to market themselves to kids. I know that they are not popular in that market now (cause I asked all my neighbors and they all said that their children "don't really like muppets"), but wouldn't it make sense for them to try to become big with kids? I mean look at the money to be made there. Anyway, I see your point and know you are right.

    As for the marketing, definately the title misled me. I didn't really see any commercials (that I paid attention to obviously) for it, so the tone of the film totally took me by surprise. I bet I am not alone. Also, a lot of parents probably just tuned in that night, saw the title, and watched. Not everyone plans out their TV viewing like some of us.

    Hey big kids like you *will* love the new Muppets! As for introducing kids to the brand, well, I guess that will happen too. I know I am in the minority when it comes to stuff like this. The more I read here, the more I know it, believe me!
  7. punkNpuppets

    punkNpuppets Well-Known Member

    dude, that's Jesus. but if that's what you think, that's what you think. and they never said that she was GOD, she was just the boss! AND I DIDN'T CARE IF SHE WAS A BLACK LADY! she was religious, i'll tell ya that! and whoopi goldberg IS a religious lady!

    i just cant believe i got 2 replies just 10 seconds after i posted!
  8. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Good point...I think above all 'appropriateness' and whatnot... if the underlying message is that EVERYONE matters, the message of the rainbow connection etched in the statue is brought out, and staying positive(like with the theatre being bought out)
    is made then it did its job. I would much rather have a psuedo inappropriate Muppet film with very positive messages then a self congradulating faux smug and warm 'strictly for the tots' movie.
  9. Natalie

    Natalie Well-Known Member

    Good point. I was watching carefully throughout the movie to see if I'd catch them say she was actually God or they were angels or whatever, but they didn't. I personally saw nothing wrong with it except for the fact that Whoopi played it in a strange way. She seemed a little too "oh, whatever, I don't really care what happens".
  10. Natalie

    Natalie Well-Known Member

    And this is totally a side note, but look at my too quotes in my sig

    These are just a couple examples of things you might not want your young kids to go around saying!

    So see, the muppets have always had a touch of adult humor.
  11. punkNpuppets

    punkNpuppets Well-Known Member

    and doesnt anyone here think anyone's HOT??? Piggy thinks kermit's HOT! she never said that but i know when someone thinks someones HOT! i'm gonna say it with two t's HOTT!

    you know that HUMAN girl from Sesamstraat? she's pretty HOTT! what's her name??? she's not a puppet, oh hey no, i'm not that SICK!

    so, how 'bout that Hilary Duff, i think she's HOT!!! (i'm 14)

    "it's getting HOTT in here!" GOD I HATE THAT SONG!!!!!!!!!!

    and what next, there's a Henson special where the muppets are PRAYING to Jim, and you guys get mad cause they should have NOTHING to do with religion?
  12. DramaQueen86

    DramaQueen86 Well-Known Member

    I belive that this movie should be previewed by the parent BEFORE letting the child watch it. If the parents find this particular movie sutible for thier child's vocabulary, then so be it.

    If I were a parent, however, i won't allow my children to see because of its crudness and sexual references.

    I enjoyed the movie inspite of this. It was a very enjoyable movie, although I was slightly disturbed that Kermit was so willing to wish his life away. i would have thought that a movie that was desinged to get the attention of children would teach them to value thier lives, not throw them away and hope to get another chance.
  13. FellowWLover

    FellowWLover Well-Known Member

    Since I watched it with her, I knew just what she was reacting to (and asked her about it) at the time. We did not watch the whole thing together. She asked me to turn it off, and after she went to bed, I watched the rest alone. I plan to watch it again by myself sometime.

    I suppose I could go into every little semi-offensive moment, but I think it is clear that most people disagree with me, and that would just turn into an opportunity for some to pass judgement on me or my child.
  14. scarecroe

    scarecroe Well-Known Member

    [laughs] That's okay, we can go with your real age. I took a guess based on the picture that used to be on your site.
  15. scarecroe

    scarecroe Well-Known Member

    I think Piggy's hot.
  16. Natalie

    Natalie Well-Known Member

    I do agree with you, Jessica. I think any parent would have done just what you had done. They thought that this would be a family movie, there was nothing to say it wasn't going to be geared towards kids too, and it turned out not quite like that. It was disappointing that they couldn't have made it more clear ahead of time.
  17. Janice & Mokey's Man

    Janice & Mokey's Man Well-Known Member

    I think Mokey and Janice are hot.
  18. scarecroe

    scarecroe Well-Known Member

    Janice definately used to be hot, but this new puppet doesn't quite have the same aura. She's still way cool though!

    Mokey I respect for her soul, and she's a cutie pie, but I wouldn't call her "hot" (ducks from Byron's glare).
  19. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Personally i'd love them to try and crack the kids market again because Jim was very committed to that but professionally, i'd say it wouldn't be worth them targetting kids right now in the USA ... the market has slipped too far away from them so they'd have to do an incredible amount of work and financially it makes more sense for them to pump the money into making things like 'BITBBH' and 'Hoobs' which are more likely to be a hit with the young viewers. In Europe, Henson have had a lot more recent success targetting/marketing specifically to kids so still seem prepared to try stuff with the 'Classic Muppets' (hence the Happy Meals) but even then i think it's a slim chance and they'd be better off sticking to the kids shows they have on-air here.

    As you say, with the new shows kids will still be introduced to the Muppet brand but it'll be at a later age and to a lesser extent than even now so that could pose a problem, though if that audience is pretty much non-existant right now there's very little to lose unless the movie and the new show is a failure amongst the nostalgic 18-30 age group in which case they'll pretty much hit the bottom of the barrel as to which direction they go in from there. All this is a shame in many respects i know, and i can totally see your points - you are in the minority here as a female parent but then again, the majority of people here are mid-20's males so even here it's the typcial demograph thing going on. There definitely is a part of me that wishes they could have had the opportunity to do a family targetted movie and then a totally seperate edgy TV show for the bigger kids but then i guess they didn't have that chance and also i know people in the business would tell me they are in a weak position already so that would lack any clear direction for the brand and cause confusion amongst the viewers. It actually suprises me that NBC didn't insist that Henson do a movie totally suitable for families with kids of all ages as i think as a network they might have preferred that during the holidat period but then Henson got to use NBC to test the new style so i guess they wanted to get that opportunity from the project too - it might explain the differences between how Henson promoted it compared to how NBC promoted it.
  20. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Scarecrow is gonna be the only one who gets this...but the next Muppet film should be directed by Godfrey Reggio with music by Phillip Glass...itd be about the current awkward state of trying to appeal to the current hip generation while being conflicted with being children's entertainment, as well as the current state of JHC...itd be called 'Kermitisqatsi: flippers out of balance'.

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