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Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by MikeWatt, Nov 26, 2002.

  1. DramaQueen86

    DramaQueen86 Well-Known Member


    I know!! It's almost like our own little movie!!:D

    I think it's funny that people are getting so worked up over who played God!
  2. C'irdan

    C'irdan Well-Known Member

    Ok, first of all, you have no right to patronize me. I may be fourteen but I don't talk down to people. Being younger than you does not make me ignorant, lesser, or sinful in any form whatsoever.

    I think all of you guys are taking this WAY too seriously. I respect all religions. I do not respect dogmatism, sarcasm, or general rudeness which is what your message is clearly full of. I think we should all agree to disagree on the depiction of god. THe point is, Whoopie was not "disgusting" and I am not going to give you the pleasure of calling you an "intellectual" for thinking that. She played GOD, she knew that Kermit would turn out fine, she knew what was going to happen because she is all-knowing. The spongebob joke just meant that she had a sense of humor and nothing more. This was all very light hearted and if you consider that offensive, I'd hate to hear what you think of feature films. would you rather have God be depicted as an old white man with a beard that is kind and gentle and lived on a puffy white cloud with feathered angels all around him? While this may be the idea of some, it is very unoriginal, you have to admit. This was a creative effort and it was meant to be so different that it kind of didn't fit anyone's vision. I don't appreciate this conversation being considered a competition in any way. I'm not giving a "last word" as you said, I just want to voice my opinion, and try to help some others to see my point. If you think that the "troops are rallying around you" then I think you are seeing the completely wrong side of the issue. It is not about who's opinion is right or wrong! It is about seeing the good in eachother and finding peace in that. I see that you mean well and I feel bad for calling you sexist and racist. I take that back. However, I think it would do you good to be a bit more open about religion and beliefs of others in general. Why does the physical appearance of God matter in any way? Whoopie may have been sarcastic and sometimes a bit cheeky, but it was all for a good natured laugh and she really was doing the right thing the entire time. "People just really need to know what's important in life"-I find that a very useful quote and I find it more and more true every day. I hope that you understand my points because I think that I understand your position. You were offended by this depiction of something so known to you, but it was very different than what you would have liked.:)
  3. trekkie1701E

    trekkie1701E Well-Known Member

    I already posted a message very similar to this, hoping to put an end to the God debate in this thread.

    God, everybody, READ MY MESSAGES!:)
  4. Chilly Down

    Chilly Down Well-Known Member

    Whoa, whoa, whoa! When did I ever say you were "blowing it out of porportion," or that this was "tame"? I said I was proud of Emiliegh for being able to identify what was wrong. My point was not that I wanted sleazy stuff. My beef was that people were saying that the Muppets have never done anything that resembles this before, and that's simply illogical, not based in fact. I don't think the brief moments we saw Friday night will bring the enterprise crashing to its knees. That doesn't mean I liked everything I saw. So please don't sample my quote about "right and wrong" at the end and make it seem as if I said it all.

    I never said I was shocked that you said this. Good for you for standing up for your honest feelings about the movie. And good for you for not letting your daughter see Shrek, either.

    punkNpuppets: The now-infamous "s**ks" comes at the very end of the movie, where Pepe comes into the theater with the documentation declaring the Muppet Theater a historical landmark. The first thing he says is (slightly paraphrased), "I've got some great news, okay? Well, great if you're a Muppet, but if you're a sexy banker lady, it s**ks!"
    Funny that you boast about saying the whole phrase, but then can't understand why people say it's vulgar.

    Trekkie: That's a severe oversimplication about the Bible and about what Christians believe. However, I liked what you said at the end of your post: "the world isn't going to end." That's about the smartest thing I've heard so far in this thread.

    I think I'm going to go get some sleep.
  5. punkNpuppets

    punkNpuppets Well-Known Member

    well, that's Pepe! he's that kind of fella!

    he was hilarious in the movie when the lady called him "Pee pee" and he says in a deep voice "Peh-pay!"

    and what "BOOB" jokes?????
  6. Janice & Mokey's Man

    Janice & Mokey's Man Well-Known Member

    Hey! Well, maybe in your viewpoint they weren't...


    When ya have 2 Muppet soulmates, EVERYthing they do is integral to the plot!


  7. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I think Jessica was referring to my post. I do think many people have blown the film way out of proportion and are only concentrating on portions that take up less than 60 seconds in the entire 90 minute movie. And taking those portions out of context and out of proportion as well.

    We all have opinions though and it's interesting to hear everybody's take. It just seems that some members are very tender when it comes to any conflict greater than that of a Charlie Brown special. Not that those aren't great, but the Muppets have never been anywhere close to that tame.

    I don't think the Muppets have become too prickly for kids. I think this was an even balance. People Magazine was right that it should have been a bit merrier. Some characters popping up and singing here and there for a few seconds would have made this an A+ project rather than the solid B I gave it.

    I am very pleased the Muppets have transcended the 80s and broken out of the kiddy all phase of the 90s. These were much closer to the Muppets I know and love. Current, zany and just enough heart without being mushy. The more I watch it, the more I love it!
  8. trekkie1701E

    trekkie1701E Well-Known Member

    <<That's a severe oversimplication about the Bible and about what Christians believe>>

    Well, it's true;) each person has their own belief.

    I mean, if you're not open-minded, you're just as vulnerable as Osama Bin Laden. The bible is interprated in different ways by different people. Period.

    Not believing in something is something. But not accepting the "possibility" of it being true is, to be honest, what really ****** me off.
  9. scarecroe

    scarecroe Well-Known Member

    God is a head of cauliflower.
  10. Janice & Mokey's Man

    Janice & Mokey's Man Well-Known Member

    Yeesh, Scott...you're really askin' for it, ain't ya?

  11. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I think the Muppets are in kind of a awkward moment right now...
    with the crash of the innocence of the 80's coming to an end in the 90's, and this decade plus long lull JHC and the Muppets have been in...well the Muppets are at a crossroads in life.

    It's a little frustrating to see the Muppets get mired in current pop references, the Croc Hunter, Grinch, and Fear Factor bits alreadt seemed dated.

    I have a bold vision of the Muppets for the future...I wish so bad
    I was able to have some form of creative input at JHC. A lot of folks think what they saw Friday night was edgy, but I have in mind something thats light years more edgy while still being family friendly.

    My vision for the next Muppet film would be something very unexpected...my dream would to have The Cell's Tarzim Singh or
    Being John Malkovich's Spike Jonze direct a PG rated Muppet film with extordinary cinematography, set desgins by Eiko or the team responsible for the set production on the movie 'Toys(1992)'
    and writing that would blow people away. I think the film would open with something akin to that 'Zoot sleeping in the desert'
    famous Muppet art parody...with Kermit standing alone in the desert thinking about where hes been and where hes going.
    I would also love to see a collaboration with Creature Shop to come up with some truly inspired Skeksis like villains to pose a serious threat...not some bumbling humans.

    I realize my ideas for a muppet film might be a bit too ambitious for the time period, but I swear I wish yiu could get a glimpse into a 5 minute snippet from this un filmed movie in my head...
    real life locations in Tunisia, Tokyo, Manhattan...all new original songs with the kind of ethereal magical quality of Fraggle Rock meets an orchestral score...zero cheesey/no embarassing MFS/AoEiG/KSY/MCM human scenes...cameos from Sesame, Mopatop, Fraggle Rock...the return of Digit, Leon, etc...
    basically the plot would be in a weird way akin to Roger Rabbit or Star Wars...Kermit would have to go around the globe to gather up every single Muppet past present and future to stand up against this emerging threat(insert awe inspiring creature shop grotesque characters) Imagine being able to see what the Fraggles have been up to, and where Muppets we havent seen in ages are doing?

    That is my dream, and I hope someday, even if its a millennium from now, an idea like this makes it...as I am seriously saddened byt he script ideas JHC has in mind(the cheap movie, halloween hotel, and time machine ones respectively)

    Anyways, one can always dream!
  12. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member

    Spike Jonze and the Muppets....THAT would be brilliant.


    I just saw this today, and I had been reading snippets of what y'all were saying before I saw it, and I was readying myself for disappointment of "MFS" proportions.

    You know what? I really liked it. A lot. I'm not sure if I "loved" it yet, but I really enjoyed it. A few comments on this thread (of over 150 messages!) :

    Jessica: I hope no one has said that you're a bad parent, or over-sensitive, or anything of the kind. I think you're doing what's best for you and your family, and I'm sorry that this was a downer for you and Emileigh. And I'm sorry if I just spelled her name wrong! Having a child DOES radically change your perspective, and although Miles is still pretty oblivious, if anything ever made him uncomfortable, I'd drop it too. You seem like you're an amazing mother, and your daughter trusts you to make decisions to help her. Keep it up.

    Joggy: Give this a chance. It's not NEARLY as extreme as this thread is making it out to be. I honestly, HONESTLY don't think it's any more extreme than what we've seen on The Muppet Show and six films...innuendo has been a part of most of the Muppet productions, and I don't think this is any more twisted or "in your face" than what's come before.

    Kermit's "suicide" is lifted directly from "It's a Wonderful Life," and is MUCH less scary and dark than what George does there. Kermit wasn't suicidal. Not like that. And it set the stage for what I've always wanted to see--what if the Muppets had never gotten together? Kinda like "The Muppet Movie" through the looking glass....

    I don't think Pepe's actions or language are any worse or more extreme than what we've seen and laughed at for years from Animal and Miss Piggy (among others). And it was positively tame compared to some of what Rizzo has done...

    As for the darkness and scariness of some of it, again, some of that is related to the source material, but I think children would be MORE frightened by "A Muppet Christmas Carol" and "Muppet Treasure Island;" both of which have more violence (including Robin's "death" and gunplay) and some innuendo, too.

    I think if I were a pup, I would have been bored at the slow parts (like I have been in most of the Muppet movies, including TMM, TGMC, MTM...okay, yeah, all of them...), especially the heaven scenes....although I did like that heaven had a couch and a pastoral setting. It could have picked up the pace quite a bit by cutting some of that unnecessary exposition and putting some more of the songs in it. I also think this could have been due to the too-quick writing and production period. 9 months isn't really sufficient to pull off something like this, and I think they could have edited it a bit better.

    One last comment--I'll get to what I personally liked and thought about it in a minute....

    I'm wondering (in a "Wonderful Life" mood myself, evidently) what we would have thought of this if the internet weren't around. Sometimes I think that the net is just a place for everyone to gripe about what's wrong with everything in the world, much like Comic Book Guy's "worst episode EVER" comments. There's always room for valid criticisms, and that's what we all think we have...but in a world without the net, I'm wondering if I would have been happier with this. I mean, it's wonderful to discuss with y'all, but sometimes I'm frustrated with the constant harping on different things. I dunno. My thoughts aren't quite clear on this yet. So I probably shouldn't post it.

    I can just see us all 25 years ago (even those of you who weren't born) discussing "last night's episode of The Muppet Show and how much it "sucked"...and who is that loser with the Boomerang Fish, and why did he replace George? Let's start a campaign to bring back George and Hilda! And why did they rebuild Gonzo? He was so much better before!!!"


  13. scarecroe

    scarecroe Well-Known Member

    I'm all for it!


    PS: I'm right with ya on Spike Jonze doing a Muppet film. Perhaps Being The Great Gonzo would make more sense than Muppets From Space did.
  14. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    scarecrow and quinn:


    Holy *insert word I'd get bleeped for*, Scott, you are a visionary.
    Did you do a neural temperal lobe hack into my brain?
    I want you all to look at that picture Scott doctored...that scene is pretty close to how I imagine just one scene out of my as yet unmade visionary epic. All this nagging about how the muppets are sinking to new lows or arent edgy or are too in the now or the like...I truly wish I could pull together a think tank to explore the idea of what could be the mother of all Muppet movies.

    My vision for a new Muppet film is something very rich, cinematic, bold, visionary, and something so new and ambitious it's hard to even speak about it. It would be timeless, flowing like sands of time...a Muppet film of epic proportions.

    My vision of a Muppet film would literally have everyone in the audience speachless...imagine a scene with Kermit walking through a desert and he happens upon a cgi digital oragami like Muppet? Im thinking of the cinematography from The Cell, The English Patient, What Dreams May Come, contemporary Manhattan in a Spike Jonze style...something that would truly transcend what we til now have come to known. All we know in out modern life is a Muppet film every few years that is ok to mediocre thats rooted in fake sets and bad human actors.

    But what if JHC decided to combine the Muppets Take Manhattan with Dark Crystal and push it to something even the academy of motion pictures would see and take notice.

    An open letter to JHC...please please do not proceed with plans for any of the slated ill concieved Muppet scripts, as its not worthy of the Muppets true potential. I am almost willing to devote virtually every waking hour to finally penning this idea I have along with character sketches and storyboards if people would take interest.

    Now to Quinn...I just thought of something. Awhile back I posed the question, what if the internet had been around in the 80's? Sure a lot of us would only be 8-14...but would we be complaining about Tales from the bunny picnic , or picking apart MFC or JHH?

    Stephen Hawkings talks about entropy...well let us imagine our own alternate universe ala in IAVMMCM where we did have the net back then, and again in the present without the advent of the net...would we have not been tainted by others thoughts?

    So many existential and out there questions to think about, as yes Quinn...we have developed a culture online of being the comic book guy from the Simpsons about everything.

    Finally to both you guys again...I dont mean to step on Thatcher or Hill or any recent Muppet film director's toes...but I think its finally time for JHC to go way out on a limb and bring in somebody like Jonze, Soderbergh, Aronofsky, etc.
  15. SuperGrover

    SuperGrover Well-Known Member

    Only on Muppet Central.

    I think the problem is that so few have any imagination anymore. Sure you're used to believing in the abstract idea of a beautiful blond pig or a frog that sings and dances, but Whoopi as The Boss? Heck no. That's as silly as believing in Santa Claus.

    Kids of all ages don't have any imagination anymore. Innuendos are commonplace to them. They mischievously look for it, expect it, interpret it in everything. Even when it's not always present. That's what I think the jest of the innuendo joke was meant to be poking fun at in this fabulous new Muppet Christmas movie, that by the way, my whole family loved.

    It was fresh and new and, considering how many times the Muppets have done Christmas, was still something different that they haven't done before. It was real. It was the Muppets' version of the traditional more adult-themed classic, "It's a Wonderful Life" movie (not "A Charlie Brown Christmas" special) yet with plenty of Frosty, Rudolph and The Grinch thrown in for the kids. And it did include Triumph the Insult Dog in the list of cameo appearances during the on-screen credits at the beginning of the show. So fair warning there.

    But fair is fair. Either you liked it, or you didn't. I loved it! A+++
  16. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member


    Scarecrow: I thought I'd just tweak your parody just a bit...
    I now present a joint Scott and Cory production of a Godfrey Reggio film:

    FROGYQATSI: Life As War

    Frog-y-qatsi: (frahg eee' kahtsee) N. From the Hopi Language. 1. A life in transition toward the future, at a crossroads.
    2. At war or conflict with being children's entertainment versus obliging to current oblivious pop culture.

  17. FellowWLover

    FellowWLover Well-Known Member

    Oh! I know, I know, I am so sorry. That part of the message was not directed to you. I used your idea to answer some other people who *had* said those things. I thought your post was very well written and thoughtful. I was just trying to answer a lot of people in one post instead of writing to each person. Sorry if you thought I was speaking only to you! That is what I get for being lazy.
  18. matleo

    matleo Well-Known Member

  19. sidcrowe

    sidcrowe Well-Known Member


    Quit what?

    Hee hee hee :D
  20. tomahawk

    tomahawk Well-Known Member

    just a quick note, on the news this morning it was reported that the muppet x-mas movie won it's ratings time slot. this hopefully is some really bright news.

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