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Walt Disney AND Jim Henson

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Nicholas, Mar 9, 2003.

  1. Nicholas

    Nicholas New Member

    :flirt: :mad: :) he he, cute


    hey, im new. I have been reading your post about disney buying the muppets. i wanted to give my 2 cents. I love both! disney more. If there were no Walt Disney, Jim would deffinatly have been my idol! I am Not Biast to Disney. I hate most of their DTV sequals, but thats just one negative thing out of a million Great things! Walt Disney was always ahead of his time. and Had many Great Achievements, With...

    -Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, the fisrt American full-length animated feature. (not the first full-lenght cartoon in thw world!). The success of this movie persuaded MGM to make the wizard of Oz!

    -Mickey Mouse, The First Cartoon to embellish a personality.

    -Steamboat Willie, First Sound cartoon.

    -Flowers and Trees, the first color cartoon

    -The Multiplane Camera

    -Melody, first cartoon filmed in widescreen.

    -Lady and the Tramp, firls full-length cartoon in widescreen.

    -The Mickey Mouse Club, The Number one childrens show of all time, at that time.

    -Disney films were known for their awesome color, that surpassed any of the bigger studios!

    -Disney had the Longest Running TV show in history.

    -Old Disney Lobby Cards are the most sought after lobby cards, becasue they were the only cards printed on glossy paper, and colors that were identical to the actual movie.

    -Walt Disney had 3 of the top 5 movies of 1961! Swiss Family Robinson, The Absent-Minded Professor, and The Parent Trap!

    -the Shaggy Dog was one of the top movies in 1959!

    -Disneyland, the First Theme Park!

    -Walt Disney FIlmed most of his TV programs in COlor, even though they were shown in black and white!

    -The Love Bug was the #1 Movie of 1969!

    -Audio-Animatronics.....

    The List can Go on and on.

    And Dont listen TO what people say, WALT DISNEY WAS NOT FROZEN. They DIdnt EVen have (im pretty sure) the technology to freeze people in 1966. When he died, and at the end of his life walt disney was actually loosing interest in animation. Walt was more interested in his florida project, so he put his son-in-law Ron miller in charge of movies, and he was until 1984 when eisner too over. ROn Miller Also founded Touchstone. Which brought to life walts dream of wanting to make more dramatic adult movies! (bon voyage was walts first attempt, and it was criticized for a scene with a prostitute flirting with fred macmurray and tommy kirk, and most of his dramatic movies like Miracle of the White Stallions Bombed at The box office). as for Sexual Stuff in recent disney films....

    -The Little Mermaid: The Dirty Body Part is actually the preist' KNEE!!!!!!!!! go watch your little mermaid videos. its as plain as daylight!

    The Lion King: ITS SFX, I can see how that F might look like an E, without that bottom line the animation wouldnt look right.

    Aladdin: Thats so not waht hes saying.

    The Rescuers: YES! there was indeed a toppless woman in it. (nothing more dirty than was in fantasia!) It was the 70's walt was dead, and there was indeed alot of porn going through the studio that the artist drew for laught. none of which would ever make it into a movie! (walt disney is said to have fierd someone for even joking about a mickey porn) ALl of the Ink And painters were girls, and were very carefull of how women were potrayed.

    these speculations can go all the way back to snow white! most are just rumours.

    I think it owuld be GREAT if disney bought the muppets. BUt I wouldnt mind it if the didnt, because disney owns enought adn the muppets need to grow on their own. You have to think of it like this, I think if Walt Disney and Jim Henson were Still alive today adn would have known eachother, they would have been great friends! you cant hate DISNEY becasue DISNEY didnt do anything. Walt Disney is dead, its eisner, not DISNEY :) Remember DIsney the Company and Disney the MAn are two different things. You can all have your opinions, but i hope all anti-disney people out there reads this and maybe has a change of heart. I think the two muppets movie made for Disney are two of the worst! the first three were the greatest. and labyrinth and Dark Crystal ROCK!
     
  2. trekkie1701E

    trekkie1701E New Member

    I'm not anti-Disney. In fact, I love Disney. But Eisner has gained a reputation for being one of the most greedy and ruthless people in business today. I fear the Disney takeover of the muppets. Why? 1) The company has cheated them before and 2) The same reason Pixar wants out of their contract with Eisner & Co: Disney is being unfair

    True, Eisner is no Walt. But, Eisner doesn't even seem to care about the principles that Disney was founded under.

    And That's just disrespectful
     
  3. BoyRaisin2

    BoyRaisin2 Active Member

    I think until 2000 or 2001 Eisner (and whoever else) were doing a pretty good job. In animation (Pixar or not), they were at the top of the game. ABC was the No. 1 broadcast network. They had prizes like Miramax and ESPN. Etc, etc. I just think Disney just lost its way in some of their creative areas, particularly animation and theme parks. Besides Lilo & Stitch, their traditional toon movies aren't blockbusters and their theme parks--whether it be weak attractions, fear of terrorism, war, economy--aren't performing that well either. And the endless cycle of video sequels, though successful and aimed toward children, are sorta cheapening the brand, particularly when you use movies from the "First Golden Age of Disney Animation." I don't have a thing against Disney buying companies like a Miramax or an ABC or a Fox Family, it's what companies do and it can be very beneficial. Viacom and AOL each have more brands than Disney and no one b*tches about them. And don't say they are more so-called "evil" than Disney because they own everything we love to watch and buy. Just look what Time Warner/Turner has done with Hanna-Barbera. Who? Those characters on Adult Swim? Exactly.

    Sidenote: They did make Boomerang, and I think a lot of the Space Ghost/AdultSwim stuff is funny. Just an observation.

    The thing with Walt Disney Co. is--with them being DISNEY--people expect more from them, and probably rightfully so, at least with their creative stuff. (I'm feeling this same way with Henson itself. They CAN do better.)

    But, hopefully, at some point, Disney will get back to where it needs to be. And don't say they'll ruin Henson (yet), 'cause the Muppets ain't doing much to impress me. 'Cause they ain't doing much.

    Now I can :eek: inhale.
     
  4. trekkie1701E

    trekkie1701E New Member

    ABC was popular only because of "Millionare"; which, as we all know, wore off just as fast as it debuted. The mistake that ABC made was to put the show on five nights a week. People got sick of it, and so did I. The Bachelor and the Bachlorette fad wore down within a few months.
    The sequels are short-term profit makers that, much like Eisner's earlier purchases already have, will hurt the company in the longterm.
    Disney has cheated Henson before, and Pixar is itching to ditch Eisner because they've been treated unfairly.

    Eisner has also thrown the principles and values Disney was founded under out the window. To think otherwise is :crazy: LOL
     
  5. BoyRaisin2

    BoyRaisin2 Active Member

    Yeah, no doubt ABC was No. 1 (and became No. 4) because of "Millionaire." As for its reality shows, ( :smirk: ) hopefully this trend that pervades broadcast TV will run its course soon.
     
  6. Nicholas, don't forget that "Sleeping Beauty" is the 2nd most successful film of 1959, 2nd only to "Ben Hur"---and I bet it'll rise to # 1 after its DVD release this September!

    :D
     
  7. Nicholas

    Nicholas New Member

    sleeping beauty may have been. But its still considered a HUGE dissapointment. it made NO PROFIT! And i know that the sleeping Beauty Video says that, but it cant be true, becasue the shaggy dog grossed 9 million (HUGE BACK THEN!) sleeping beauty only grossed 5 million, not bad, but it cost more to make it.


    and yes! i hate eisner too. but he's there and hes 61! so he will probably be out soon! and i do think people expect more from disney. ABC's rating are actually getting better. they have some pretty good shows now, like 8 simple rules, and less than perfect. I dont think disney owns miramax, they just release their films.

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Byron!! LOL!! Your location.

    *ahem*

    Disney is great in its own right as a company, and they do achieve great things. But most of the above list was during Walt's time in charge. Don't forget, we're dealing with Eisner's Disney.

    But, with the fact that they totally ignore Mickey and gang (their own characters), what makes anybody think they will do any better by the Muppets (who, by the way and in a way of speaking, have been the major competition).

    Sure, Disney has the dollars, but look what they've been sinking their money into: cheapquels to video.

    Kermit's Swamp Years wasn't all that good, but okay.

    And as someone else pointed out, look how good Disney owned ABC Network treated Muppets Tonight with "all the hype and advertising and the permanent good time slot..." Sure, they showed it on The Disney Channel, but who wants to pay for TDC? I don't.

    I think Disney wants to own JHC only to suppress it and lower the expectation of the competition.

    UNLESS (like I keep saying) They purchase the JHC with full intention of giving them creative freedom.

    But Eisner's Disney isn't that giving. Had Walt still been around, I would feel differently.

    Kev
     
  9. No no, that's not what I mean. I said "Sleeping Beauty" is the most successful film release in 1959---as in, since then. It is #2 so far, and I believe it will rise to #1. Believe me, it's my favorite film, and I wouldn't say somethin' if I didn't know to back it up! ;) And they wouldn't put it on the video if it weren't true. In fact, they even say, "However, since that time, SB has become the 2nd most succesful film of 1959---second only to 'Ben Hur'."

    But that'll change quickly with the release later this year! :D

    And so what if it didn't make a profit? Neither did "Pinocchio". Neither did "Fantasia". That happened to several films. What does matter is that millions of fans love it, and some of the people connected to it. And it is definitely not considered any sort of "HUGE disappointment" today by any standards. That phrase is only used in terms of original box office release, and some people's misguided take on the point of view in the film (those people juvenilely expect the same "Snow White" or "Cinderella" storytelling, when it is completely different---unfortunately, a few of those people have been allowed to write in Disney books! :grouchy: ).

    As they said, it was a milestone of a film that was only done for that particular one. It's too unique in the Disney canon.

    And, like "Fantasia", it just goes to show ya that Walt Disney was SO ahead of his time with "Sleeping Beauty". It rivals some of today's animation in intricate detail, beauty, and overall stylization for a picture---and to me it will always be the best.
     
  10. BoyRaisin2

    BoyRaisin2 Active Member

    :smirk: Dear God, I hope it's Janice's.
     
  11. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Nah, she's with ME!

    :zany:
     
  12. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    Oh, my lord!

    Byron's funny for such a hairy little man... :crazy:
     
  13. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    BYRON!!

    Don't you DARE ":grouchy:" at ME, young man!!

    I swear to God, I'll turn this car right around and tan your hide!!

    (If I can FIND any hide under all that fur...)




    I have plenty of hide showing... :(
     
  15. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    My Views on ABC TV

    ABC needs to deviate from the reality TV line-up :
    The Family, The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, I'm a (pseudo) Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here, Are You Hot, All American Girl and the longtime - America's (un)Funniest Home Videos. Yes, there are that many - probably more!

    Their sitcom lineup is pretty cheesy too - except Life with Bonnie and Less than perfect (which are placed in a terrible timeslot). They are trying to make us watch yet another dull John Ritter show and a Dadio-esque dreadful program with the lesser of Belushi brothers. Both used to be fine actors. It's sad to see them in this sludge.

    They moved the Practice to Monday nights. Probably unwise. But I their new Miracles show is promising. So is Dragnet, and Alias is still going strong.

    They also keep playing edited for television movies. Who wants to see that in this age of cable TV and DVDs? When Friday nights are filled with a 2 hour bock of America's funniest home videos, we can see they just aren't trying. :sympathy:
     
  16. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Re: My Views on ABC TV

    I get your point - TV ideas need to be more creative, but the networks don't want to spend money on trying new unproven things without track records. I honestly think there is mileage in Celebrity reality shows - but obviously the key to that is getting decent celebs to take part and that either takes lots of money or a really good idea.

    Next on from reality is supposedly VR shows - like Final Fantasy but where contestants play in the 'virtual world' and people at home can vote for what happens next etc. There are at least 3 of those formats hanging around right now.

    Reality TV isn't so bad, and there are new things that can be done with it. Trouble is they keep on redoing the same old stuff, and then doing different rip off versions of that.
     
  17. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I have to admit to watching Are You Hot. It's so funny to see a gogeous person cry because they weren't "hot enough." LOL! Well I thought they were hot until they turned on the water works. The "Why are they judging how I look?" statments are funny too. I also watch Idol, but that really is more about talent - something people can do.

    I would like to see more hour long dramas that aren't about doctors, lawyers or pretty white kids with problems (nod to a Mad TV skit). It seems that's all we get. That's why Miracles intrigues me. Sure it has some corny parts, but it's almost like a mini movie every week. And it's not too warm and mushy either. Good stuff.
     
  18. Manda:-D

    Manda:-D New Member

    He's NOT "little"!!!! I've heard Byron's HUGE!!! A veritable GIANT!!!! (OK, so, he probaly is at least to ME, as I am barely above 5 feet!!!)
     
  19. C'irdan

    C'irdan New Member

    disney

    I really don't know what to say about Walt Disney...I don't know enough about him because all that I've read about him has been totally biased in his favor-most likely it was written by the Disney corporation. I like his early work...although it will never be comparable to muppets in my opinion, but the corporation now a days is just sick...I mean it's so...so capitalist!:(

    And besides...disney did not invent animatronics. If you do your reading...(Jim Henson: The works) you'll find that Jim Henson himself invented this type of programmed robotic puppetry, and not only did he invent the idea...but he himself named it "animatronics". I do believe I have made my point.

    :crazy: (always wanted to say that!) :D

    -C
     


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