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Watched The Muppet Movie and noticing a lot of new stuff...

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by mupcollector1, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    Like many of the people here, we got interested into The Muppets at a very young age at some point and generation. Some I'm guessing must have seen The Muppet Show when it originally aired in the 70s (you lucky people lol, I wish I had a time machine :) ) And there's people like me who grew up watching The Muppet Show in Nickelodeon and Muppets Tonight on ABC / Disney Channel back in the 1990s, my generation. lol And perhaps the new generation of fans I slowly discover on this form who discovered them on DVD or other sources. Like my best friend, less than 5 years ago, he became a classic Muppet fan. And we both enjoyed the new movie (esspecially Jack Black getting the John Cleese treatment lol) and love watching classic Muppet Show episodes. In fact last weekend, we watched the Vincent Price episode because we went to Wal-Mart and seen this Kermit hat that had Kermit with Fangs and I told him that the episode was the only time he had fangs. (Grover did give him teeth on Sesame about 10 years later but that's another story. lol)

    Recently personally I've been studying The Law of Attraction and what I started to notice was relations and coinidences to some of Jim Henson's quotes and even The Rainbow Connection.

    I wanted to re-watch The Muppet Movie and last night into today I did. (I usually like watching movies in parts lol) and perhaps I watch TV a little differently then most people. I had the captions on because I like to read the script as well as watch The Movie.

    It's been so long since I've sat down and watched the movie again. I don't even remember how many years it's been.

    But what's amazing watching it as an adult and reading the captions is that for the first time, I'm getting all the dialog jokes I never knew existed. I noticed there were a lot more adult situations in there between Kermit and Miss Piggy like him getting dumped and Fozzie and the gang having some murmuring negitive thoughts about her. The running gags, I wish I could remember them all. lol
    Wasn't there a scene cut out from the El Sleezo Cafe scene where Kermit orders a Dragonfly cocktale?

    Though there was some things that I did notice at the end that I noticed.

    Robin in the background at the magic store number behind Miss Piggy

    Big Bird postcard in Dr. Teeth's Bus

    The movies running gag on the Church sign

    Sam the Eagle tells Scooter the movie was "Sick and Weird" over the credits

    Frank Oz wasn't credited for Marvin Suggs

    Jim Henson wasn't credited for Link Hogthrob or The Swedish Chef

    Sweetums eats one of Lew Zeland's Beloved Fish in credits, as well as knocking out an angry chicken lol

    Adam Hunt, Richard Hunt's Brother worked on the movie

    In the background Marvin Suggs lands in the lap of Blue Frackle who later brushes himself off in disgust. lol

    "Big Bird courtesy of Children's Television Workshop"? How odd, I thought The Jim Henson Company owned the rights to the Sesame Street Muppets until that German Company breifly bought The Jim Henson Company then sold the Sesame Muppets to CTW.

    Was the ITC copyright still on the Disney DVD release?

    And finally, should I buy the new Disney version on DVD? I still own my Columbia release and I ain't letting this DVD out of my collection, it's got the screen test. I re-wated it and it's even more irreverently funnier then I remembered. lol I loved it. lol

    But now seeing it as an adult, I get the plot of the movie and it's so inspiring to me as an artist trying to make it to the big time. It's a simble of Jim's career and his crew in a fictional matter. And just to follow your dreams no matter if you get bullied along the way or if people tell you no. And it's kind of like The Law of Attraction sort of, Kermit believed in himself and he meet the characters who believed in the same dream.
    This was the first time I watched the movie where I felt like crying happy tears.
    Because I get everything now, the jokes, the running gags, the plots, the symbolic messages. It's Amazing!

    And I felt that since I was a member on this forum, I wanted to express my positive feelings about this movie. Sure I've always loved this movie but now I love it even more as an adult. :)
    It's so inspiring!

    The lyrics to every song, there's a message that being said! :)
    Gonzo, Muppet fan 123 and DrDientes like this.
  2. jgidley Active Member

    "Frank Oz wasn't credited for Marvin Suggs

    Jim Henson wasn't credited for Link Hogthrob or The Swedish Chef"

    The reasoning for that is Marvin Suggs and Link Hogthrob didn't speak in the movie. You're right that Jim should have been credited for Chef, though, because he does speak when the movie stops halfway through; "Gersh gurndy morndee burndee burndee flip flip flip flip flip!":hungry:
  3. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    Well technically Link and Marvin Suggs did speak....sort of in the begaining. When Statler and Waldorf are commenting on how joyious they are that the movie hasn't started yet, Marvin Suggs is spinning around and you can hear him go "yeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeee!" lol
    And when Miss Piggy is talking with Link and the other male pigs right before Doglion steels Kermit's reserved seat, if you listen closely, you can hear Link mumbling a bit.

    But your right, there wasn't any major dialog with them.


    One of my favroite lines in the movie is when Kermit is talking to a psychological mirrored version of himself and he tells Kermit "If you haven't left the swamp, you probably were to still been misrable in the first place." Even though it didn't show it and even Kermit quoting that He'd miss this old swamp. There's a lot of background story information that even though it wasn't shown visually in the movie, it kind of makes you think that Kermit himself weant to those double features all the time and dreaming that someday he'd be there. Also when he's singing Ranbow Connection, it's like he doesn't realize the lyrics he was singing until later. :) It's very interesting analizing the movie, so many hidden messages. :)
    Vincent Liu likes this.
  4. Hubert Well-Known Member

    Yes it is, watching this movie one time was the first time I realized the inspiration of the Muppets. Someday (eventually), when I feel like taking on the task, I'm gonna write about a 10 part article on TMM for Dynamite Determination...
    Muppet fan 123 likes this.
  5. heralde Well-Known Member

    Well I think he's saying that if Kermit hadn't even tried and just given up and stayed in the swamp he'd be beating himself up right now anyway. So even if he didn't make it to Hollywood, it's better that he at least tried. :)
    mupcollector1 likes this.
  6. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    Some of the other stuff that I liked was when Fozzie sang in Moving Right Along "Sadly we just left Rhode Island" and I remeber I said out loud to myself "Rats, they could have came to my place. lol" I'm from RI. lol Also when Dr. Teeth was reading the script "EXT. SWAMP - DAY" and I was cracking up because that's actual script-writing format! I know because I write in movie format with my projects all the time and I wonder, how many people ever caught on to that one. lol

    Even Dr. Teeth stopping for the cop (who of course was Max, by the way that guy looks familiar. Was he in major movie roles at all?) And I loved how Janice says "Drag City" lol And then Dr. Teeth says "It's the Fuzz, the P-I..." Miss Piggy sneaks up behind him "DON'T YOU DARE!" Then he replies to save himself "I won't think of it." lol
    It's really cool to see the characters chatting with characters they rarely ever socialize with like Miss Piggy and The Electric Mayhem, Fozzie and Miss Piggy (Kind of hard because both being Frank Oz), Kermit and Dr. Teeth (Both Jim Henson) However they were both on Johnny Carson together and silent moments with him and Kermit, Bunson and Beaker with Rowlf. You know what I mean?
    Sometimes I wonder if they were to talk about anything, what they would talk about.

    I remember seeing on the 60 minutes interview that someone said that they couldn't have like minded characters together for some reason and compaired Boagaurd and Fozzie together quoting they are both slow.

    Anyway It's so satisfying to watch the ol' Muppet movies again. I got to watch Great Muppet Caper next some night. For the past few weeks I've been thinking about The Happiness Hotel when Fozzie says "If that's the happiness hotel, I hate to see what the sad one looks like." And I for the first time remembered how ragity the hotel was and how it was falling about and Jancing singing how The Whole thing has gone to H*LL. And I'm thinking "OH I GET IT NOW" lol
    It's so much fun being an adult Muppet fan looking back at everything and now getting all these dialog jokes that went over my head as a kid. lol
  7. Mo Frackle Well-Known Member

    I rewatched the extended version about a week ago, and just remembered a really funny bit from that version. While Doc and Max are following the rainbow colored studebaker, at one point Doc has Max do a U-turn. There's a "Mad World" type car stunt, and Doc complains, "Can't you make a simple U-turn?". Max replies, "What's the matter, Doc? Don't you like the complicated kind?".
    Gonzo likes this.
  8. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    What was up with the Myth joke, where the lady comes out and says "Yes?" I never got that? What was that referencing? And that Harry Pressingate thing? Is that like Frog Croak mating sounds or something like that? Both running gags, they look histarical but I don't funny get the gags just of yet. lol
    So what's the extended version? I know there was deleted scenes in the movie like Waldorf and Statler on a Camel and in a resterant and stuff like that. Also there was a cocktail joke cut of out the Columbia DVD release where Kermit orders a Grasshopper Cocktail at the Elsleezo Cafe (lol love the name of the bar lol). I still own my Columbia DVD mainly because of the rare screentest footage (super funny irreverent stuff. lol Fozzie GOES in the stove aka ciggerette lighter, Kermit argues with Fozzie about being a fake bear and Miss Piggy reveling that she cut Miss Mousy in half. lol, Jim and Frank are just laughing like crazy over their performances through out lol CLASSIC)

    I also heard a rumor about alternative audio for the credits that didn't have the "Can You Picture That" instrumental music. In the alternative version , could you hear the voices of the characters talking to each other more clearly?
    I'd love to get some of this rare Muppet Movie Footage in one of my future tape trades :)
  9. Mo Frackle Well-Known Member

    I'm not 100% sure, but I think the "Myth" joke is supposed to reference "myth" kind of sounding like "miss". When Kermit's saying, "that's just a myth", Telly Savalas mishears and says, "Yeah but she's my 'mith'. Carol Kane appears to be saying "yeth?", which, I guess, is an incorrect saying of the word "yes". So Carol takes Kermit's "myth" as a calling for a "miss" (meaning her). Don't know if that's correct, though.

    I think you mean "Hare Krishna". That's a religious cult. I guess they're saying if you're lost, join the cult?

    As for the extended version, to my knowledge this was only released once on home video. It was released on a VHS in the UK back in the mid 80s. It's interesting that this bonus footage isn't included on any other home video release. My guess is that Virgin (the company that released this extended version) had a different copy on hand. Over in America, it appears that we've been using the same copy for decades. With that said, does this footage actually exist on film? And was any of it actually shown theatrically? If so, then could there be more deleted footage from other Muppet films that n, obody ever bothered to look into?

    Anywho, some of the deleted scenes you mentioned were, to my knowledge, cut before the film was released. These scenes inlcuded Statler and Waldorf showing up during Fozzie's spot at the El Sleazo Cafe, Statler and Waldorf showing up on a camel during one of the desert scenes, a road sign referencing Sam the Eagle, Doc Hopper getting covered in tissues (which makes him look like a giant chicken, and evidently is what causes Gonzo to bump into Kermit and Fozzie).

    None of these scenes are included in the extended version. We can only wonder if they survived. Probably not, though. Less care was taken in holding onto deleted material back then.

    The extended version includes the following:

    During Kermit and Fozzie's dance, the scene where Max shows Doc Kermit, there's a brief glimpse at the Doc Hopper logo inside the Cafe, making the scene a little more dramatic.

    During the fight scene at the Cafe, while some of the customers are beating on Kermit, Kermit says, "Hey guys, frogs are ticklish!". As I recall, there's also a bonus shot of Kermit flying into the piano.

    Doc's TV commerical has an added ending. Something like, "we hop it, that we do", but I'm paraphrasing.

    At least one brief line during the scene where Doc shows Kermit the billboard.

    Dr. Teeth's reading of the screenplay is longer (among other things, it includes a mention of a giant yellow bird), and includes clips from earlier parts of the film.

    A few extra lines during the scene where Doc and Max are pursuing the rainbow colored studebaker.

    Miss Piggy's "Never Before, Never Again", appears to be taken from another audio take. There are noticable differences in the usage of certain instruments, and the line that Piggy stretches out at the very end of the film "agaaaaaaain" is less screechy (I think this is the version heard in the theatrical trailer).

    "I Hope that Something Better Comes Along" has a few added verses, which can be heard on the film's soundtrack. The soundtrack also includes an added verse in "Moving Right Along", but that's not included in the extended version.

    During the scene with giant Animal, an extra shot of Animal is used, which includes as look at his arms (personally, I thought it was kind of a creepy shot).

    The end of the film, when all of the set comes crashing down, goes on longer, with extra shots of the gang reacting and/or falling.

    The credit sequence includes at least one extra shot of Sweetums before cutting to the credits. And yes, the music is much softer in the extended version, so dialogue is extremely clear. I belive this clip can be found on youtube. The first half of the music is the same as in the commonly-seen print. The second half is different.

    Don't know about the grasshopper line. I've heard rumors about that, but outside of people's "memories", I'm not aware of this line ever being used in the film. Maybe in the original script, though.

    Former MC member Earl Kress (who was among the many puppeteers in the finale) recalled the preperation for a scene in Kermit's swamp that involved a character not seen in the finished film. The original script does mention a scene where Kermit tries to say goodbye to one of his old friends. Perhaps this was his friend?

    P.S. There's also a Super 8 version of the film (to fit the Super 8 format, the movie was cut down to about 20 minutes). There are a few alternate audio bits in this version, notably certain scenes that don't have their background scores.
    http://www.muppetcentral.com/forum/threads/how-rare-is-a-super-8-version-of-tmm.43526/
  10. Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    The woman has a lisp, so instead of making an "S" sound, she makes an "TH" sound. "Myth" is like "Miss" with that lisp, so she though Kermit was referring to her.
  11. Mo Frackle Well-Known Member

    jvcarroll likes this.
  12. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    Cool, thanks. I remember seeing on a couple of sites where they either sell copies or actual copies of Muppet Movie scripts (mainly movie script sites), some are rough drafts and some are the final draft. I'm still trying to find Jerry Juhl's original Muppets From Space script since I heard that certain directors...well let's just say that there was a lot changed, especially the ending. By the way, MFS was based on Gonzo's song from The Muppet Movie right?
  13. Mo Frackle Well-Known Member

    Yeah that script was written by Jerry Juhl and Joey Mazzarino. Originally, Randal Kleiser was set to direct, but it was felt he wasn't bringing enough 'vision' to the project. Jerry and Joey had to choose between two other guys to direct the film. They wound up choosing Tim Hill. While a nice guy, Tim made way too many pointless changes to the script that really hurt the film. And I'm assuming MFS was at least partially inspired by "I'm Going to go Back there Someday" (though Brian Henson once said that the Henson Company wanted to explore the relationship between Gonzo and Rizzo a little deeper).
  14. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    Yeah Tim Hill, even though he also directed the CGI Alvin and The Chipmunks movies (shivers) I think the only good thing that I liked from the guy was KaBlam's Action League NOW! Those were really funny. They were knock-offs of famous toys like HeMan and Barbie and they get ran over by cars or thrown into blenders, kind of a Mr. Bill kind of feeling to them. lol But yeah, I remember Frank Oz said how much he didn't like the film and I wonder if that was the reason why he slowly left The Muppets.

    Personally I would have liked either Brain Henson to direct or even Kirk Thatcher since I wrote a draft called "Muppets In Space". It just doesn't make much since to me that they got an outside director. Then again, we had Jason Segal and The Muppets (2011) in my opinion was a lot better than MFS. Especially Miss Piggy and Fozzie both having some sort of toilet joke in the movie. Animal dunking his head into a toilet is okay with me, he's primitive so it makes since to his character. But what really disturbed me was Sam the Eagle dancing with some girl at the Celebration musical number. So NOT Cool, so not his character. Man, Frank's characters totally didn't get much respect in that movie, did they?

    But like I was mentioning about The Muppet Movie and even in Great Muppet Caper, there were so many dialog jokes that I now get as an adult. "If that's the happiness hotel, I wonder what the sad one looks like" lol The joke just came to me one morning and I was like "OH NOW I GET IT!" lol But like what Jane Henson said in the Henson's Place documentary "It was camp since the begaining" lol From the explosions to the slapstick, The Muppets also had a love of bad campy jokes. lol And I don't see much of that anymore with the current stuff. I think It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie was the last production I've seen with that nature sort of.
  15. Mo Frackle Well-Known Member

    Frank leaving had nothing to do with this movie. His non-Muppet directing schedule simply became busier and busier to the point where he felt it was best to retire from the Muppets. Actually, I didn't mind the Sam joke. Not sure how Frank felt about it, though. Since Frank wasn't on the set for most of this movie and had to dub his characters in post, I can only imagine what Frank was thinking while he had to dub lines like "I have to pee!".

    As for getting an outside director, my guess is that was Columbia's doing. I think Disney also wanted an outside director for "The Muppets". Thank goodness it was somebody who actually was a huge fan.
  16. Hubert Well-Known Member

    OK...I have to ask...is there something I'm missing here? I don't want to sound offensive, but it seems like a pretty easy joke to get...unless you are speaking of some deeper meaning?
  17. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    LOL, well like I was mentioning in the begaining of this thread, like some of us if not most I was a Muppet fan since God knows when and I'm slowly getting the irreverent jokes and stuff within the dialog. lol

    For this example, I'll explain. When I was a kid and even through out my youth, I thought the joke was refering that this hotel was happy and Fozzie was just curious if there was a sad one. NOW in my 20s, I'm like remembering all these lines and remembering how the Happiness Hotel looked all shabby and falling apart so what I was getting at was the joke makes more sense. Fozzie looks at the Happiness Hotel seeing how bad shape it is and pointing out it's ironic name "If that's the Happiness Hotel, I wonder what the sad one looks like". So what I was pointing at was I finally got the joke and it wasn't just is there a sad hotel or a mad hotel but, the Irony I finally got. lol So that's what I meant on that. :)
  18. Hubert Well-Known Member

    Ah, I see now. :)
  19. mupcollector1 Well-Known Member

    I was reading on the ol' Muppet Central FAQ that Jim was one of the bad guys in the western scene with Doc Hopper. I don't remember seeing this. Even Richard Hunt and Jerry Nelson at the El Sleezo Cafe. I did spot Frank Oz attacking Fozzie. lol Though I thought Jim was in the El Sleezo Cafe too being the first ones to grab Kermit and Fozzie off the stage.

    By the way, I've been reading that Tough Pigs article, super cool stuff. Thanks. I still need to read the rest of it, I've read the first 4 chapters. I was amazed with the George Burns cameo and just LOVE how Kermit was throwing Henry Kisinger (sorry about the spelling) out of the movie when he wanted to play a sherif, then he's in the El Sleezo Cafe drinking in depression "The frog says I can't be in the movie, I'm not part of the cast he says" lol I would have loved to see that. lol Uh, just because I grew up in the 1990s, wasn't he a politician? The only thing I know about him was Spitting Image made a puppet of him during the first series. lol That's all I know. lol
  20. heralde Well-Known Member

    He was the Secretary of State from 1973 to 1977.

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