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Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by Phillip, Sep 29, 2003.
This is getting us nowhere.
It's sending a message to the Henson Company that the fans won't settle for this crap. This franchise means too much to me to have this abuse take place.
I don't think any one from the Henson Company would have the balls to confront me on this issue.
This has nothing to do with Kimmel! He is funny and so is his uncle Frank.
Kermit dose not nor should he conribute to that style of comedy.
I would like to see other muppets do it but not Kermit he is the nice guy, sort of the head CEO of the Muppets. He would be the one to cringe and discipline other
Muppets for crossing the line wich would be OK. Not Kermit!!!!!
Half the people on this site did not live thru the muppet glory days.
I experienced it all and it seems to me that others who have agree with me.
I wish I worked there, and I had power! The Muppets would be more what we were used to, and I could make them edgy and cool without the crasp, insulting, and very dissapointing new muppet personalities of the classic characters we love!!!
Well, let's just hope they don't decide to sell out to any other companies for a long time!!
I have been around the Muppets since I was a kid, and I don't have a problem with anything that I have heard about. He's playing to a particular audience, and was reserved from it for a while, but when you're dying on stage you either pull out and get off the stage, or you play to that audience. It's not a kids show or a family show, it's a show for adults, and if parents let their kids see it then they're the ones with the problem.
Just watch Kermit, you'll notice he works the audience to find out what their humor level is on, then plays to that audience. Whether it's on Wayne Brady, Jimmy Kimmel, or Hollywood Squares.
Of course, at this point and time, JHC will have him on Kimmel in order to rope back in that audience to the muppet core fandom. If it means being a little crude, then there you go.
No! Kermit will bomb on a show like Kimmel. Where as Rizzo would not.
You people are not listening to what your reading!!! Kermit should stay away from that stuff!!!
It would be best to complain about your own observations rather than claim that you are representing all of the fans. From what I've been reading on the threads most fans like how Kermit is being performed and I am one of them.
Don't represent me, but I think you should have your voice heard. Email the opinions here:
The JHC Folk pop in from time to time and read this forum, but a direct email might be more helpful.
Hope it helps!
I'm not the only one. I know that some fans do agree with me too.
I realize I don't represent all Muppet fans. I feel comfortable on my stance
and I do feel its worth debate.
I agree that you should have your voice heard and you represent some fans, but I don't think it's the majority. The best thing to do is to represent yourself and let those who agree with you write their own letters.
No, that's Sam's job. Kermit would never say this type of stuff on any of his own shows, but this is not his show.
Note; When I said This is getting us nowhere, I ment that for a while all we've been doing is ranting and repeating things that have already been said about twenty times in this thread (myself included)
Seeing Steve Whitmire actually performing doesn't ruin the Muppet magic at all, in my opinion. In fact, to me, it heightens the splendidness of the magic behind-the-scenes! I've seen so many documentaries on the Muppets, each one showing what goes on under the puppets, and every time I watch a Muppet movie it a astounds me that there could possibly be two six-foot tall men crouched under Fozzie Bear! Or Rowlf. I still cannot take it in! I've seen them actually performing hundreds of times, and I stil,l cannot picture them doing it while watching a Muppet movie. And where were you during the eighties? Jim Henson was there on screen during almost all of Kermit's tv appearances!
Maybe I should have mentioned that after Sal pointed Steve out, both Kermit and Jimmy tried to dismiss him as Kermits "personal assistant".
To Super Scooter
Yes, Jim Henson DID sit there with Kermit out in the open, as he did with Doozers on the Today Show with Gene Shalit.
Also there was a big run with Kermit on Johnny Carson as himself.
BUT THE BIG difference is NEVER TWO WAYS AT ONCE
If Jim is with the frog in the open okay, and if perfroming hidden okay, but NEVER do you mess with things once decided.
How many Muppet Show episodes are there were you can see Henson's head?
How is that for a question?
If the Kimmel people cared they would have had a little talk with all guests and said "please be nice." But they did not. They spoiled the fun by mentioning Whitmire. And all that dirty talk. Kermit always looked awkward there to me.
I am just speaking for me only, and I feel that is the proof of the pudding is that the Kimmel people didn't really care or appreciate, and anybody should expect that because the show is dirty and stupid all the time.
Go for Letterman or Leno and roll the dice with a class act, or toss Pepe or Johnny (my avatar and Italian saying are humour inspired by him) to Kimmel instead.
Kermit deserves the best!!!!!
Kimmel is the worst late night show there is
Am I wrong
I am representing myself ,and I don't care to sugar coat this and be a polliticaly correct monkey. I don't need to say Okay folks this is my opinion. Let me make sure everyone knows this. Just in stating what I have said I am sharing MY OPINION!!!!! I do in fact represent a large portion of fans who have no desire to waste time discussing this on a muppet web site because they have lives and they gave up on the Muppets a long time ago.
It seems that we share different views on this and I do appreciate your view point. We make this site a much better site because we are not affraid to share our opposing views with each other. I love that.
How do you really know your in the majority? "In MY OPINION" If you think the Muppets today are just as good as the originals "In MY OPINION" You are
quite silly indeed. There is NO WAY TO EVER RECREATE THE MAGIC REPORE THAT JIM AND FRANK HAD wit there muppets (fozzie-Kermit-Ernie-Burt)!!!!!! That said, new Muppet Creations could capture back some of the magic but it will never be the same. as Chris Mathews says "LETS PLAY HARDBALL!!!!"
You are entitled to your opinion, but not to mean-spirited posts. As a moderator, I must ask you to please tone it down. Everyone who participates on this forum has a life. It is not fair to say otherwise. Attacks on other members are unacceptible.
I was offering you friendly advice in writing your letter to Henson. It was not an attack on your point of view even if I do disagree with it. You are welcome to share your thoughts without insulting others or speaking for the rest of us.
You have been representing your view as being from the majority of fans, but it's simply the majority of fans you know. Thousands of fans have visited Muppet Central, Tough Pigs and Palisades Toys forum among others and this is not the general consensus I've seen from the many people around these parts. I have heard your point of view expressed here and there. Keep in mind that these are fans from around the world and not just one region. That's what makes Muppet Central and other forums so great. The bottom line is that you should write the letter from your own heart and conscience.
There is no way anyone can recapture the magic of Jim Henson. The Muppet characters have always evolved and this is yet another step in that evolution. It’s a good thing that Kermit, Fozzie, Ernie and Bert live on reguardless of the context. These are living breathing creations, not time capsules or empty icons.
Life? What is this "life" of which you speak?
*runs off to cry into pillow*
"Thousands of fans have visited Muppet Central, Tough Pigs and Palisades Toys forum among others"
Now with meaning others, you mean DomDeliuse.com right?
I know...pointless info, just trying ta lighten the mood.
There's a thread here at MC about this somewhere.
Henson and other performers' heads and arms are seen kind of often; in the Jim Henson Hour Secrets of the Muppets, all the performers talk to the camera with their Muppets over their heads!!
And at MuppetFest, there was no magic lost in seeing the puppets on the laps of the performers during Q&A sessions.
It depends on how much fantasy you have in your heart as to whether seeing the performer matters or not. I'm weird, though, and LOOK for that kind of thing.
When Kermit leaves Piggy's dressing room (before she's arrested) in TMTM if you watch the mirror behind her, you'll see Kermit leaving and below him Jim Henson's head!! IN A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE!! LOL!!
hey, Zack? You able to get on aim now?
You guys don't understand what I'm saying, as you point out a bunch of times we see performers by accident or sitting with their characters in the open.
There is a big difference, but you say the same things again.
Look, it is okay to have a performer sit with the character for a talk, or sometimes fun to find a mistake where you see an arm where you shouldn't, but it is TOTALLY WRONG to point out a performer in the middle of a performance.
Do you stand up during a play and say "Hey buddy! I know you! How is your new house?" to an actor? That is VERY rude.
The Kimmel guests weren't all that great, and didn't mesh well with Kermit much at all. To help keep the magic special, the Kimmel people should have told everyone not to disturb or mention Whitmire himself, and if they did, they should have edited it out.
It is only me I am talking for. Majorities are not always right. Many years ago a majority of people thought it was okay for black people to be slaves, so I don't care about the majority because it is meaningless.
You can only believe in your own beliefs
If this is where the careless owners of Kermit are taking him, it makes me sad
My idea of good humour is Red Skelton and Bob Newhart and Bill Cosby. I guess others like Chris Rock and Howard Stern style.
Mr. Henson always was gentle and wise and smart, and putting his whimsical frog in a garbage show like Kimmel is totally wrong.
The only Muppets on that show should have been Pepe or Johnny, not our beloved Kermit who once delighted toddlers on Sesame Street in that old film footage from the 1970-s years.
The Henson people wanted the DVD mentioned a bunch of times on the show and they sure got that, so I hope they are happy with the money. It was easier to exploit and "sell out" the famous Kermit for that. Henson company got money but LOST magic. TERRIBLE decision!
It would have been harder and challenging to put Johnny or Pepe in there, but the Henson company took the easy and quick way and "sold out" Kermit.
Dealing with the devil you always lose out.
We lost a piece of Kermit's magic on that garbage program.
Good people don't give away the beautiful things in life for the quick buck. Where is the SPECIAL caring for our SPECIAL frog????
I agree that once the decision is made to perform the character a certain way (performer or sans-performer visibility) it should continue that way. The tone is set from the top. That means the host. Kimmel appears to be socially inept with little control over his show. In other words - bad host.
That being said, the Muppets have referred to their puppeteers before - looking down and freaking out in the Jim television tribute special and mentioning them in a very sly way. However, this is the performer's prerogative and not some self appointed comedian. That was very tacky.
Kermit handled himself well. I'm glad he was on the show. Kimmel's audience seemed to really connect with him and that's what counts. Who cares what a bunch of D level celebrities think? People still love the frog!
Separate names with a comma.