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Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by Phillip, May 20, 2005.
It's not terrible. It doesn't TOUCH anything with Henson, Oz, Nelson & Hunt though.
Personally, I did not like it at all. There was some funny parts but I did not like the sexual parts especially at the end regarding gonzo and that cgi woman. (Which was one of the crapiest cgi animations ever) I guess I liked the innocence of the muppets ago. I realize that they must stay modern in order to survive but some of their humor is let down to those of us who like the muppets whether they say certain jokes or not.
I don't think the Muppets were ever innocent as has been claimed in a few posts. However their humor used to be a little more sly in some areas than the boldness contained in more modern projects.
The Cheeky Muppet Moments thread goes through some of them.
I think it's the difference between subtle innuendo and just immature humor. I think the Muppets used to be both innocent and mature.
Muppets Wizard of Oz
I'm proud to say that, after my latest viewing of the movie (just the other day), that I loved it.
It REALLY isn't as bad as you all are saying it is. These are some of the highlights:
-Johnny and Sal
-The best (IMO) performance of Scooter since Richard Hunt's passing.
-The Quentin Tarantino cameo
-Queen Latifah and David Alan Grier as Aunt Em and Uncle Henry and Jeffrey Tambor as The Wizard
-Electric Mayhem having a few lines.
Ok it may not be as good as other Muppet projects, but on this forum all I see is people complaining about how it's "An embarassment" and such. Oh and another favorite... how it's "raunchy"... I guess most of you haven't seen the Raquel Welch episode of the Muppet Show 'cause that was pretty "rauncy" too .
I dunno... maybe it's because I was born in 1988 which was, like, the transition period from "Jim-era" projects to "post-Jim-era" so I just like everything Muppets (it's the same thing with The Simpsons, I started watching when season 11 was airing, so I just like like all Simpsons) but I honestly don't see this movie as being terrible.
Who's with me!
-I don't even really know them and even if I did they don't really look like muppets I would like that much as characters given how much I have seen of them. Maybe I just do not care for the joke they are trying to make with the characters? I can't put my finger on it..I didn't grow up with Muppets Tonight at all and apart from some Kermit thingies it has not seemed like my kind of show from what I have watched on youtube....
-Scooter was never really a favorite of mine. (I am more a Sweetums or Jr. Gorg girl)
-I don't care for him or his movies...
- The parts were so little and even then I felt they overshadowed the muppets in their own movie
- I'm not much of an Electric Mayhem fan, besides a few songs...As far as their characters go if they only have a few lines it doesn't feel like they are really there to me...
OZ is my least favorite muppet movie of all time actually...
I was born in 1983 so I dunno..maybe those extra five years really had an effect on me? But even the old type of raunchy or dark was not like the type in OZ or VM X-Mas IMHO..it has a certain..bitterness to it to me, while the old type was more...innocent is the only word I can think of :\ .
Wow...*grabs my sister and points at the screen* Lookie there, it's me!
J/K. The point is, I totally agree with you and feel the same way about the movie myself. At the time it aired, I did feel it was the weakest Muppet movie/special (Letters to Santa holds that title now...) due to bad CGI and Dorothy (I don't see the appeal of the young woman they picked to play her, and I wasn't thrilled that the movie seemed to promote her and her not-that-impressive singing.).
The jokes were still funny.
The movie was still wacky and entertaining, rewatchable too.
Johnny, Sal, and Pepe. I'm glad that the new Muppets from Muppets Tonight didn't fade away with the show's cancellation.
I was born in 1986 and grew up watching the "Jim-Era" on repeats and movie channels, as well as the "post Jim-Era" as it came out.
I've honestly LOVED each and every one of the Muppet movies/specials equally (...with the exception of of "Letters To Santa"...that was a disappointment. Too short, too childish-making it feel like a Sesame Street special rather than a Muppet one, and not enough effort put in on the writer's part.) and am boggled by the hatred that's aimed at everything made after Jim died. Then again, as I noted above, I wasn't too pleased with "Letters To Santa" and was suprised by the praise many of the fans gave it.
The "ranchy" and "dark" quality of the "post Jim-Era" of Muppets was hardly a noticable difference to me, and I honestly love it. But then again, my generation grew up with that sort of stuff in our cartoons. Adult humor/innuendos and sometimes dark/mature storytelling is in many of the shows I watched growing up on Cartoon Network, Kids WB, Disney, and Nickelodeon...and from what I've noticed, it's still around in the cartoons the kids have today.
So I don't see the problem with it...it's a simple case of "to each his own". I'm just hoping that future Muppet projects are better than what "Letters to Santa" gave us...because the overly childish feel wasn't in the Muppets before that special, and I don't want it to become a recurring thing...
I understand, it's just that from my point of view, I feel the earlier Muppet projects were more risque and adult, while the more recent projects were immature, like a teenager trying to seem adult. That's just what I see from it.
Having said that, I loved the job they did with Scooter in Oz, amazingly spot on voice!
Our cartoons might have been dark and it's not that I hate dark in itself, it's just to me the muppets were never in my mind linked with a bitter sort of jaded darkness...actually I would say that although our cartoons were dark (and keep in mind I am not a fan of more adult Ren and Stimpy or Beavis and BH and the like from the get go so I leave them out of this) they where not exactly jaded or adult-adult as a whole ether...
Given a choice between being what some people think as childish with the muppets but keeping their more happy undertone vs. making them more mature and giving it a dark undertone I would pick what some people call childish every time. Not because I don't think that the muppets can handle serious issues but that to me it seems like the muppets are most true to their characters when they have a happy undertone of hope, even when it might seem silly to have it...
But that is just my two cents, don't mind me . I talk too much...
I've only seen Oz once. It really isn't as horrible as people say it is, but it wasn't all that memorable either. It had moments that got a chuckle out of me and there were a few moments in which I aaawwww'd but it didn't have that spark to make it classic.
Yup that's what I mean, I feel like there's a difference between adult and jaded.
About the CGI.... I like to pretend that when they're at Oz that they CGI is purposely made to be ugly... to show the shoddy workmanship of the "wizard" and Bunsen and Beaker xD lol. And as for Ashanti playing Dorothy... well I have nothing against her. I'm not a fan or anything, but the fact that she was in the Muppets makes me like her more lol.
I actually though Ashanti was cute, I didn't like how they insulted her outfit, it didn't feel like in good fun.
I just don't see how the Muppets of the "Post Jim-Era" have been jaded or immature simply because they've made some of the adult humor a tad more obvious...it's not like the kids notice (Jaded is the last thing that comes to mind when I think of the Muppets...and the only immature thing I can think of that they did is something that I've already stated many many times in the last couple of weeks...so I'm not going to say it again because I'm sure you're all sick of hearing it). And I don't think it's as bad as people like to make it out to be either...
I dunno, I simply don't get why it's such a big deal...as long as it's funny and goes over the kids heads (Again, many of the cartoons from the 90s...as well as ones on today...have adult humor far worse than anything the Muppets have done so far. And it flys right over the kids heads!) then I don't see the problem.
As for the Muppets having mature and deep bits, I really don't see what's wrong with that as long as they're still funny and heartwarming too...which, to me, they alway have been.
Again, I feel that my watching both Eras equally while growing up has given me a more open-mind view regarding the Muppets...allowing me to enjoy it all while the older fans can't because all they see are the differences (this is just how it comes across to me, I don't mean any offense by saying it). I'm hoping that the next Muppet project will be perfect for ALL the fans, and not disappointing in any way to any of us.
I think it's great that you have an open mind about it, I'm often too stubborn about this for my own good, hehe. Still, I don't dislike things about the new projects simply because there are differences, but because I honestly think there are problems. Obviously we'll all get different things out of seeing the same project, it's hilarious human nature.
LOL, that's so very true! Besides, it WOULD be boring if everyone agreed on everything all the time.
Yup, one thing I have learned from the Muppets (and this forum) is that it's OK if not everyone likes something (or doesn't like something, heh).
Like I said before, I nearly gasped when I first heard Scooter speak; he lived again at that moment.
I'm stubborn, I have always held the muppets to a special standard that is all their own because they are so dear and one of a kind to me . So although they could do nearly anything to match other shows, there is a thin line for me between the muppety and the not, even in a totally free storytelling place like fanfic, I get, like I said stubborn and picky ...
I think it is not so much that we grew up watching any more or less of the newer movies than each other ( I was only six when Muppets at Walt Disney World came out, nine at The Muppet Christmas Carol, and thirteen when Muppet Treasure Island was new) as it is the muppets just effected us in different ways and left a somewhat different impression of themselves to each of us, it's nothing to do with open mindedness IMHO .
Yeah, I'm like that too. I shouldn't have said it was a case of open-mindedness because that wasn't really fair of me to say. You're right, it's just a difference of opinion and viewpoints.
No hard feelings . No matter what I write I'm never really mad or upset at anyone
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