Anyone going to see Tangled?

[Mupp]

But I'll say what I said a while ago... Gnomeo and Juliet... the fact that Disney got stuck having to release that is a crime that should be served by all the people who made it. That's EXACTLY why there's so much hate for CGI films now... these lousy litle upstarts that just wanna make a Sharktales like film. And of course Justine Beiber gets a freaking movie. Bet it has no plot and is basically generic. As long as he never gets a TV show sitcom.

Just remember;

Gnomeo and Juliet is only being released by the Touchstone banner and was made by Starz Animation.

The good news is that Disney Animation had NOTHING to do with the making of the film. Their hands are clean.

 

[lotusoftheleaf]

What does the animation medium matter though?

A film's STORY is most important thing. Not the type of animation. Just because a film is hand-drawn does not automatically make it a good film. Hand-drawn films can suck if they have a bad story.

It's true that the story is what matters most, but I guess it's just, I don't know. Disney was always like the master of traditionally animated films. Even if their CGI stories are good I'd prefer them to be hand-drawn simply because, well, that's what I've always known Disney for. I admit, that's probably not a good mindset to have. I guess I just see CGI as a lazier way of animating, probably due to the all the sloppy non-Disney CGI movies.

 

[Mupp]

It's true that the story is what matters most, but I guess it's just, I don't know. Disney was always like the master of traditionally animated films. Even if their CGI stories are good I'd prefer them to be hand-drawn simply because, well, that's what I've always known Disney for. I admit, that's probably not a good mindset to have. I guess I just see CGI as a lazier way of animating, probably due to the all the sloppy non-Disney CGI movies.

Well, its important to remember that Walt Disney loved using new technologies.

Keeping that in mind, I don't think that its fair to expect Disney Animation to ONLY make hand-drawn films, that would be imposing a specific animation medium on the studio.

Disney Animation is very unique now in the fact that they make both hand-drawn and CGI films.

Yes, there have been a lot of sloppy CGI films in the past from various companies. But again, thanks to the new management of Disney Animation, Story is back to being top priority.

These days, I think its safe to trust both Disney and Pixar.

When done right, CGI does not have to be "lazy". The process of CGI animation very close to stop-motion animation, its still done frame by frame, but in a virtual environment.

 

[Drtooth]

First Fred gets a movie and now Justin Beiber? Pretty soon we'll run out of untalented hacks to put in our films... but then we'll just make sequels of the films they were already in, right?

Well, Fred's movie was thankfully DTV. Plus, that was released when Fred became passe. I NEVER found that crap funny. Why he was marketed with toys and stuff I'll never know. That's the problem with Youtube. They can yank your videos for copyright violations (especially third party ones) but they have no talent filter. That said, the only internet personality that deserves a movie is Dr. Robotnik.

I hate how "children" has become synonymous with the word "retards." Sorry if that word offends, but that's how I feel most people see our children. Just look at what's on TV for kids these days. There's obviously no thought behind it because they figure kids aren't bright enough to understand any thing more than that. Dubbed anime is a big example. Anything that might invoke provocative thought or powerful emotion gets removed. Our kids are a lot smarter than most people like to give them credit for.

Actually, dubbed anime was ALWAYS like that. Going far back to Speed Racer's day. There's an obvious, painful culture gap when it comes to the stuff, least we forget. The American standards for kid's programing is really ridiculous. I've been saying for years, they don't give that kind of respect to our own American cartoonist and cartoon writers, what makes anyone think they can give the same kind of freedom for another country? The stories I could tell you. An ABC exec wouldn't let Dot Matrix give Enzo a sisterly to brotherly kiss on the cheek on his birthday because that was considered "incest." A hot dog going into a hot dog bun had to be faded out in a Ripping Friends. You can't even say kill, death, or use handguns on kid's programming. Of COURSE they have to slaughter stuff out of anime. This is not new at all. In fact, things are actually getting a wee bit better... or they did in the 90's with Batman TAS breaking and shattering boundaries.

All the disdain I hear about 4Kids? Hah! Just be thankful Harmony Gold isn't around anymore.

Just remember;

Gnomeo and Juliet is only being released by the Touchstone banner and was made by Starz Animation.

The good news is that Disney Animation had NOTHING to do with the making of the film. Their hands are clean.

That's of course what I meant. They somehow got stuck with having to release this as a contractual obligation. They have no choice. Still, I wish someone could harmlessly release this as a DVD. Shudder... which brings me to..

It's true that the story is what matters most, but I guess it's just, I don't know. Disney was always like the master of traditionally animated films. Even if their CGI stories are good I'd prefer them to be hand-drawn simply because, well, that's what I've always known Disney for. I admit, that's probably not a good mindset to have. I guess I just see CGI as a lazier way of animating, probably due to the all the sloppy non-Disney CGI movies.

Anything done RIGHT can be a masterpiece. There are lazy and or cheap CGI's out there... but those are specifically used in local furniture commercials and Brazilian studio movie knockoffs (Ratatoing, and anything with "the littlest" in the title). To me, the CGI boom was more like the 1990's animated movie boom. Wanna bes. Pixar and Dreamworks had some solid hits, so naturally, third and fourth and fifth party companies want that kind of scratch too. The rule of thumb is you only remember the hits. We remember Lion King, Little Mermaid, and Beauty and the Beast... do we remember Quest for Camelot or Thumbelina from the other companies? In 10-20 years, we'll no doubt remember Toy Story and Kung Fu Panda... but we're not going to remember Happily N'er after or Surf's Up.

When all's said and done, story DOES indeed come first, but good animation should always follow. Of course, you can have a great story with bad animation like Bullwinkle's old series and have a great memorable project... or you can have great animation but a terrible story and bad writing like Thumbelina. Pixar is the MASTER of the CGI film, but they respect 2-D and are actually helping Disney preserve it. Just because they can't make a 2-D traditional movie every year doesn't mean they aren't doing that as well.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

I hate how "children" has become synonymous with the word "retards." Sorry if that word offends, but that's how I feel most people see our children. Just look at what's on TV for kids these days. There's obviously no thought behind it because they figure kids aren't bright enough to understand any thing more than that. Dubbed anime is a big example. Anything that might invoke provocative thought or powerful emotion gets removed. Our kids are a lot smarter than most people like to give them credit for.

This post turned out to be a lot longer than I intended it to be.

Actually, dubbed anime was ALWAYS like that. Going far back to Speed Racer's day. There's an obvious, painful culture gap when it comes to the stuff, least we forget. The American standards for kid's programing is really ridiculous. I've been saying for years, they don't give that kind of respect to our own American cartoonist and cartoon writers, what makes anyone think they can give the same kind of freedom for another country? The stories I could tell you. An ABC exec wouldn't let Dot Matrix give Enzo a sisterly to brotherly kiss on the cheek on his birthday because that was considered "incest." A hot dog going into a hot dog bun had to be faded out in a Ripping Friends. You can't even say kill, death, or use handguns on kid's programming. Of COURSE they have to slaughter stuff out of anime. This is not new at all. In fact, things are actually getting a wee bit better... or they did in the 90's with Batman TAS breaking and shattering boundaries.

All the disdain I hear about 4Kids? Hah! Just be thankful Harmony Gold isn't around anymore.

Theres a difference in censoring stuff for kids and treating them like their dumb. While certain things that get censored I think are dumb, its more of the childrens educational shows that I see as making it seem like the kid is dumb.

Ok. Teletubbies, Boobas, WotWots...any show where they speak in gibberish. Its not cute, its not amounting to anything and it certainly isnt helping kids develope language skills. Kids understand language even if they cannot speak it yet because they are exposed to it and learn from seeing or doing. Those shows do not encourage the age group (what...2 to 3 year olds?) to talk correctly. Most 2 year olds have a fragmented speech and may not be able to pronounce things correctly, but they can get their point across.

Another thing is when they talk directly to the kids. Now, I have no problem with it until they talk to these kids with huge pauses inbetween words like they are waiting for the kid to process that single word. Blues Clues was an example of doing it right. Steve always talked to the kids like they were intelligent. He talked like a normal human. Then theres shows like Dora. Now maybe its just part of the accent, but it drives me nuts. Her questions are long and robotic and her only tone of speech is that whole "I'm going to talk slowly and clearly because I dont know if you understand what I'm saying" way of talking. Dora isnt the only culprit of this either

 

[Drtooth]

Indeed. I'd love to stand here and talk all day about the stuff I agree with and disagree with in editing shows for another country (At least we were able to call them NINJA Turtles, so it isn't all that bad in that aspect). One time I heard complaints about a rape scene in Yu-Gi-Oh being altered to be a purse snatching... all I could say is "What country are you from that they can show that sorta thing on kid's television? it sure the heck isn't here!" Though, 4Kids's handling of One Piece was dangerously close to how Harmony Gold would have handled it (cutting up episodes, leaving out sagas and such). There are so many idiotic double standards in American TV for children... like how you can't even have an anti-drug episode because it still exposes kids to drugs, even if they're vilified. I saw a Bravestarr that NO ONE could ever air on TV again today about drugs, featuring a very depressing death of an addict for an ending. That's powerful stuff. Why NOT send that message to kids.

But anyway. I agree completely about how Preschool shows are handled. Now, I will say Boohbah and Teletubbies is an odd British thing. I hate how they brought them over here and how popular Teletubbies was. Boohbah was a titanic failure and who could blame it for being one. And I really disagree with the ask kids a question and have them answer. I dislike when Blue's Clues introduced that concept, but I think shows like Dora, Mickey Mouseclubhouse, and (especially) Super Why are lazy, cheap, loud, and I can't wait to see that mode of education to be completely discredited and disprove. Kids aren't stupid. Even and especially kids with disabilities don't like to be treated like morons. Talking loud and slowly is what Bad American tourists do. On the other hand, I continue to praise Curious George and Dinosaur Train... shows that treat kids as an audience. This preschool prep stuff needs to stop.

Now, when it comes to movies, I don't think kids are that dumb either. I still don't see the appeal of talking live action dogs with sassy ethnic comedians doing their voices. That is PLAYYYYED out. I'm glad Marmaduke was a failure, but that's not going to stop them from making more films like it. They're apparently threatening to do a Heathcliff one, and that really upsets me as a Heathcliff fan. But the whole idea that kids like crappy outdated hip hop music and hip hop slang shoved into media that don't need it, shouldn't need it, and would never need it... I'm sick of it, it's been thought up by out of touch old white guys, and it needs to end. I'm abhorred by what they're doing to the Smurfs, don't need me to say that more than once (though I'll give it until the next trailer), Gnomeo and Juliet has Razzie written all over it...and Justin Beiber (to be impartial) OF COURSE will have an at the moment movie... but there's no guarantee it will be a hit. Remember that American Idol movie? Didn't think so.

What I personally want to see is the end of "Big action star is a babysitter that doesn't get it until halfway through the film" movies. When they tarnished Jackie Chan's rep with one that was TOO FAR!

 

[Mupp]

When all's said and done, story DOES indeed come first, but good animation should always follow.

Exactly.

An ideal animated film should have both a strong story, and top-notch animation.

 

[lotusoftheleaf]

Actually, dubbed anime was ALWAYS like that. Going far back to Speed Racer's day. There's an obvious, painful culture gap when it comes to the stuff, least we forget. The American standards for kid's programing is really ridiculous. I've been saying for years, they don't give that kind of respect to our own American cartoonist and cartoon writers, what makes anyone think they can give the same kind of freedom for another country? The stories I could tell you. An ABC exec wouldn't let Dot Matrix give Enzo a sisterly to brotherly kiss on the cheek on his birthday because that was considered "incest." A hot dog going into a hot dog bun had to be faded out in a Ripping Friends. You can't even say kill, death, or use handguns on kid's programming. Of COURSE they have to slaughter stuff out of anime. This is not new at all. In fact, things are actually getting a wee bit better... or they did in the 90's with Batman TAS breaking and shattering boundaries.

Something I really don't understand is why animated abominations like Family Guy and The Cleveland Show can be aired at times when children can see them. My little brothers are always trying to watch Family Guy and I'm always changing the channel on them. I think those shows are awful, though the early episodes of Family Guy were actually decent. Kids can hear Peter Griffin spew some racial slurs, but they can't see a Japanese stereotype depicted in a WWII era Bugs Bunny cartoon.

Some people might argue that those shows aren't intended for children, but originally neither were Looney Tunes shorts. And I wouldn't consider Family Guy to be an "adult" show. To me, an adult show is something like The Flintstones. It deals with things adults could relate to and kids would find kind of boring. Family Guy is just an immature kids' show with violence, cursing and sex thrown in.

Most anime that gets chopped up isn't even intended for the age group we market it to anyway. Other than ruining a great story, why can't we just air it later at night and slap on a warning before the show airs? I like how Naruto was done on CN. Blood wasn't completely edited out, it was just lessened and phrases like "dang it" replaced the more vulgar ones. The story was left untouched, and if anyone wanted to see the show unedited, the DVDs came uncut.

I wish there was an uncut DVD of Digimon. I love that story, but all the corny puns that were added in the dub ruin the experience for me.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

Its like a double standard. slapstick violence is ok (like Looney Tunes), but how dare a character say something that will soil a child's ears :/

As for family guy. I hate it. I dont get, its not funny, and its hard to watch. The thing is though, that the assumption I guess is that children should be going to bed before its on, and Fox isnt known to be a childrens station, so I guess they assume that children will not be watching Fox. With Cartoon Network, they have to put it on late because children DO watch that channel, and by the times its on, kids are usually alseep

 

[Drtooth]

Something I really don't understand is why animated abominations like Family Guy and The Cleveland Show can be aired at times when children can see them. My little brothers are always trying to watch Family Guy and I'm always changing the channel on them. I think those shows are awful, though the early episodes of Family Guy were actually decent. Kids can hear Peter Griffin spew some racial slurs, but they can't see a Japanese stereotype depicted in a WWII era Bugs Bunny cartoon.

Some people might argue that those shows aren't intended for children, but originally neither were Looney Tunes shorts. And I wouldn't consider Family Guy to be an "adult" show. To me, an adult show is something like The Flintstones. It deals with things adults could relate to and kids would find kind of boring. Family Guy is just an immature kids' show with violence, cursing and sex thrown in.

While I tend to HAVE like Family Guy and actually find Cleveland alright (American Dad is the best dang thing on the network, and no one realizes that... all their BEST writers go on to that show), I agree... but they ARE adult series... by which college kids like them. And gamers. And frankly, those demographics ruined FG... but that's another story. There was this brilliant comic that was somewhere on Deviantart I saw once... a TV exec told Peter Griffen to keep pushing the envelope and be more offensive, and the same exec telling Bugs that his old cartoons have to be more PC.

Now, here's basically what I think. I'd HATE to see kids today exposed to the Looney Tunes shorts that had those stereotypes (though Speedy Gonzales cartoons should never have been banned, and Porky's stutter is an homage to the stuttering voice actor who played him in the Black and White era before Mel Blanc), and I sadly have to agree those just can't be seen on regular children's TV time. HOWEVER, they should be perfectly preserved in a collector's series, because denying that they ever happened is WORSE than it happening. It's like rewriting Mark Twain stories to call the character "Upstanding African American Person Jim." I feel that Disney SHOULD release Song of the South on DVD, BUT it has to be sold as an online exclusive for collectors and animation fans with a special feature about how this movie was a product of it's day.

Where as Stuff like Family Guy, Robot Chicken... anything that airs during adult swim... well, that's shock humor for the sake of shock, and the shock wore off on me years ago. They are no longer clever with those jokes... in fact, FG really had only one... two more seasons after it was initially canceled... but it's been going strong because the stoners love it. Sigh... I miss when it was a low key thing that was constantly up for cancellation. That was when they had the RIGHt balance of offensive and funny. Hitler having a talk show? That was great. Everyone randomly being nasty to each other for the sake of being funny? Not cool. Plus, unlike FG, American Dad has a coherent PLOT week after week.

As far as anime goes... the problem with American anime consumption is a LOT of it is for kiddy toy purposes. Why we get so much crap like Beyblade over here. Not only is there a censorship issue, but there's also so many annoying cultural gaps keeping us from getting the GOOD stuff. Doraemon can't be shown in the US because it's too adult for kids, and too kiddy for adults. And smoking and nudity are common themes and plot points in some of the episodes I've seen. And for some reason EVERYONE hates the old stuff. Saint Seyia was a titanic flop over here (wish I bought more of those at Target when they were cleared out... didn't!)... and there are just SOooo many important shows from Yattaman to Dr. Slump we just can't get. heck, Dragon Ball was a flop, DBZ was a runaway success. And of course, the older DVD buying public ONLY wants the new stuff, and I think that really lessens the experience. There are so many that are historical that we refuse to watch... sigh... if the original Kinnikuman came out on DVD here, I'd sell BOTh Kidneys to get it.

But enough on that... the stories I could tell you about American animation double standards... and the stuff that they actually GOT away with...