1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. "Muppets Most Wanted" Fan Reactions
    After you see "Muppets Most Wanted", read fan reactions and let us know your thoughts on the Muppets eighth theatrical film.

  3. "Muppets Most Wanted" Original Soundtrack
    With a new Muppet movie one of the most anticipated merchandise releases is the official soundtrack. Listen to the Muppets Most Wanted original soundtrack now playing on Muppet Central Radio.

Did Jareth change Toby's diaper?

Discussion in 'Fantasy Worlds' started by Monsoon, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. bazooka_beak Active Member

    You know, if somebody whisked me away to a magical land, I'd stay, no question. Who needs the "real world" when you'd have magic and wonder at every turn? Seriously, in the manga Sarah has basically become a boring and unimaginative school teacher. How sad :/

    Yeah, Toby was definitely a toy for Jareth, but I always thought he sorta wanted Toby to stay so he could raise him and make him an heir or something. Just, you know, he wouldn't do much of the raising himself xD
  2. Redsonga Active Member

    I know, why is it always the 'this can't be real I want to wake up' realistic people that get whisked off to magical lands? Even in anime it happens over and over :( (Fushigi Yuugi, Magic Knight Rayearth).
    Why is it never one of us that wants to stay where magic lives? Are we just unlucky :p?
  3. BeakerSqueedom Active Member

    Agreed, you two!
    Honestly, why don't they whisk us gals away...
    We'd show lonely Jareth a good time.

    I mean...wha? :3

    *Angel*

    Jareth: *SCREECH*
  4. Baby Gonzo Member

    Have you all ever heard of the Joseph Campbell hero's journey? In almost every story that has a protagonist, that character will go through a journey from fall to adventure, crossing the threshold, an ordeal, and return. There is more too it than that, so I recommend reading further into the subject, but Sarah's journey into the Labyrinth follows the archetype of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey

    The reluctance of Sarah to accept the world she was thrust into was all a part of the hero's journey. One of the steps of the hero's journey is the refusal of the call to adventure.



    I didn't see Sarah's lack of imagination or leaving her imagination behind as an issue. I think that some people judge Sarah too harshly. She was a scared kid who had a big responsibility to bring her brother back. Although we all may be thrilled to try something new, it's scary to "leave the nest" and go out into an unfamiliar world. I will say that I did not like Sarah as a character initially, but I think she redeemed herself.
  5. Redsonga Active Member

    I've heard of it and studied it in English class..I don't know, I guess I just think that the 'by the book' hero's journey has been done to death :p.
    As for Sarah, even when I was 12 I would have not been afraid of a fantasy world if I was cast into it...But I think your mindset goes a long way in the labyrinth :).
  6. Baby Gonzo Member

    Though the hero's journey archetype has been overdone, if you think about it, almost every movie, especially "kid's movies" or epic movies (Like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars) follow it. It's hardly even intentional. I don't think anyone ever sets out and says "Okay, this has to follow this outline". But if you didn't have some of those elements, there wouldn't be a point.

    I consider myself someone who likes to stay close to home. Though I believe I have a vivid imagination, if I were in an unfamiliar place without my family or friends, I don't know how I would handle it. It's not a matter of imagination, it's survival and goal orientation.

    Sarah's goal was to find Toby. Her complaints about the Labyrinth were not because she hated it. She was trying to find her brother. If she sat around enjoying the Labyrinth, she never would have found him.
  7. Redsonga Active Member

    I guess I'm just saying that rejecting Jareth and the labyrinth might not have been the only way to get Toby back, or at least just send him back.
    I think it all comes down to how much you like your 'normal' life in the first place.
    I did not have the best home life growing up so to me I would have done a 'take me for him' or 'if you are going to take us, take both of us forever' trade if I was Sarah, since I don't link my home life when I was 12 to happy things, or at least things happy enough to trade living in a fantasy world for them...
    The labyrinth may have been not the nicest of places, but who is to say it wasn't just mirroring Sarah's own 'this is going to be scary and Jareth is evil' core feelings?
    Of course, I am one of those weird fangirls who thinks that the Jareth at the ending was his true self and that he is a great actor linked to the nature of the labyrinth (I forget if a fanfic was ever written before to that effect, but I think so. If not I would like to write it someday:3), :p
  8. Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Redsonga, we already have all the magic we need in our lives...The others still need to see it.
  9. BeakerSqueedom Active Member

    Beau...that's true...Wow...I'm...touched.

    o_o *Will quote that forever, yo*

    Honestly. :)
  10. bazooka_beak Active Member

    *gives Redsonga a hug*

    I guess for those of us with a big imagination, the idea of living in a "fantasy world" is a lot more appealing than paying taxes and Garfield Mondays ;) While I can understand where the hero is coming from, I was baffled even as a kid.
  11. BeakerSqueedom Active Member

    *Hugs Red tightly*
  12. heralde Well-Known Member

    Actually I always thought the ending of the movie was very optimistic. Sarah wasn't just having an imagination, she was avoiding life. Instead of being an older sister to Toby, she was jealously guarding her old play things. Instead of socializing with people, she was hanging out by herself obsessed with the stories she loved. There's nothing wrong with loving stories, but they should inspire you to live your life, not hide from it.

    In the end, Sarah realizes she has to live in the real world and grow up (for instance excepting that life isn't always fair). And it's not all bad, sometimes it means caring for another human being who needs her and is real, like Toby. But she's also reassured at the last minute that if she wants her fantasy to come back "every now and again", it will be there for her. As someone who often struggles between love of fantasy and the real world, I found it very comforting. :)

    And I'm sorry, I love watching and adoring Jareth as much as the next person...but from a distance, hehe. I wouldn't want to be with someone who says "love me, do as I say." :coy:
  13. Redsonga Active Member

    The thing is for some people being alone and living half or sometimes all the way in a fantasy world is life, and a good one, and we make a living off of that which only we can see.

    Plus some of us are just not social, and rather than just taking everyone else's idea of 'life isn't fair, deal with it' and ' if you were 'normal' you would love hanging out with other people' we change the world around us to make it more fair, and try to make others see the light about why we think the way we do.

    Really, I think Sarah gave up far too much of herself in the name of being 'grown up', sure you have to be careful and caring with a little baby, but just because you are older does not mean you must be some stereotype 'grown up sister' who gives everything to your brother because you're 'too big for it now', and you only visit the dusty drawer of your childhood once ever five years if no one is looking :(.

    Sorry about the rant but I've always felt very strongly about this issue...

    But then I have a temper, am an only child, never had to share anything (but now share my toy collection with my friends babies and take them back home at night), and live in my fantasy world as a writer and hope to be published someday ;)

    Maybe Jareth should have kidnapped me. Me thinks we have a lot in common ^.^

    Actually, I've always seen that is going both ways, if she loves him than she would be doing as he says but he will also be her slave so he will do whatever she wishes in return. It actually sounds very good to me, thank you very much! :3
    Much more romanic than a forced kiss IMHO ...
    Ack, the many boyfriends... the drool..*dies*
  14. heralde Well-Known Member

    Believe me, I understand. I'm also an only child and have a temper, lol. And most of the time I enjoy the fantasy side of things and want to make a career of it. But it doesn't make me happy forever by itself. And at the end of the day, if I focus on it too much (without actually creating I mean), I've contributed nothing to the world and the people in it. The real world is less glamorous and harder to live in, but it takes more guts to do so. But again, I struggle with it all the time. :)

    Well, you're entitled, hehe. To me it just reminds me of the "love, honor and obey" line. It's focused on the wife and not the husband. I will never say that line at my wedding.

    I think I prefer Hoggle now that I think of it, he's like the unpopular slightly less attractive, but ten times smarter and moral boy who likes Sarah too, but will never get the appreciation he deserves.

    Plus, I don't think they're saying "the world isn't fair, deal with it, end of story." They're saying don't complain so much about it. Find a way to work around it.
  15. Redsonga Active Member

    Whose to say that we add nothing to the world by living in the magic side of life? Who is to say that a single smile we give someone as we are walking down the street does not add a millions times more depth and meaning to being alive as six months at a dead end job earning money that will only last a month?
    Everything we truly do as ourselves , every little thing we are, effects and contributes to the world when we are alive, we just need eyes to see it :).

    Wow, my best friend was right, I am a reincarnated hippie :p
  16. heralde Well-Known Member

    Well I think we're just arguing semantics then and we're talking about the same thing, hehe. Of course giving someone a smile is important, it makes people's lives better. And being a responsible grown up doesn't have to just mean the dead end job. Another part of it is having someone to care about in life who is real and will love you back.

    Another thing, even if you end up at a dead end job, there's always a way to find something positive. Maybe you're there to support someone else who is having a hard time and needs a friend. It's all how we look at it. :)

    Hoggle was smart about the ways of the Labyrinth when Sarah was too naive. Like when he knew fairies were dangerous when she didn't. You can say he's too jaded and living in the "real world" perhaps, but his wisdom was vital to the journey. And in the end, he's inprised to be more positive himself.
  17. Redsonga Active Member

    I only have one best friend really, I have never been much of a people person because I grew up alone. I can write to people, but person to person interaction is just not something I am good at and really like at all. I don't think that doesn't make me a responsible grown up, I take care of people when they really need it, but I can do that and live in my head at the same time quite well :). I just don't reach outside my bubble much outside of people I have known for years because I am very sensitive and bull headed and innocent and people judge me very badly for it....
    But all that aside I really don't think one has to pick between caring for others and living 100% in their head, it can be done, and well. That is why I got so mad at Sarah for not seeing that :(.

    Sorry about the rant, but this whole subject (and the whole movie) actually pushes some very very core what makes me me buttons, which is why I am so stubborn about it :p. And it's also why I don't watch Laby that often..it just makes me so truly sad...
  18. heralde Well-Known Member

    I don't doubt that you care about people, of course, I hope it didn't seem that way. :)

    But now I'm really into this Hoggle thing, now that I think about it, lol. Jareth is the popular boy in school, dashing and cool, who wouldn't want someone like him? Nevermind he's arrogant and steals little babies, hehe. Hoggle isn't really attractive and has a bad attitude, probably from being rejected all his life. Jareth teases him and makes him think Sarah could never like an ugly nothing like him. Hoggle tries to stand up for himself, despite his fear of Jareth, and says Sarah called him a friend. but Jareth just mockingly throws it back at him.

    That's why Hoggle goes along with Jareth's plan, it's not like Sarah would ever like him anyway, so he thinks. He's lost all hope and is too afraid of Jareth. Then when it's all over he feels guilty and realizes he's to blame. Instead of wallowing in self pity though, he goes back to save the day, which took guts. And he's amazed that Sarah still calls him a friend after everything he's done. That's what inspires him to be a more positive and confident person. Really, he's such a great character, and a big accomplishment for the Henson workshop.
  19. Redsonga Active Member

    Hoggle always seemed to me like a very old man. Even if he was not ugly I still like Jareth more as a person...I don't know exactly why, Jareth just seems like love would change him more...But maybe I just like a project ;).
  20. heralde Well-Known Member

    I've learned from experience that boys don't change easily. ;)

    Not that I think Jareth is all bad, I get the impression he cares about her, probably for the first time, but doesn't really know how to be with a girl other than ruling over her. Sarah always forgets that "you have no power over me" line because she doesn't realize how important that concept really is either, until the end.

    And I don't see Hoggle as a love interest necessarily, but clearly a much better friend. :)

Share This Page