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Discussion in 'Muppet Replicas' started by the80sdrummer, Jan 16, 2010.
I'd like to see Sam the Eagle!
I just did a check on Ebay and of all of the Sideshow Busts - only Beaker is unavailavle and Scooter is the lowest priced of the buy-it-now bunch. Scooter's one of my faves, but that's the marketplace skinny and has been for a while. Same stats for Ebay UK. TMS accurate Super Scooter exclusive action figure is cheaply found everywhere well under retail price ($5 in some cases) while the non-show based Super Beaker exclusive figure goes for big bucks from $50-100+. While this isn't a technical science, it's safe to say that in high and low priced Muppet collectibles, Beaker is king! I really hope that Scooter rises in popularity too.
You know the item that had some of the most sluggish sales? The Pigs In Space Swinetrek with First Mate Piggy. It was an excellent piece, but you can still pick that up for a steal.
honestly, right now, I'd be happy with some nicely done reasonably realistic and not too overly priced plushes.. I mean, I want the posers, too, but right now, I'd really like to see just about anything in the market...
We need a [LIKE] button for such insightful comments! I agree 100%
I'm sure the plush license is available if someone wanted it. It just won't come from eFX. They make replicas. That's what business they've chosen to be in.
If someone did want to make realistic plush, I am sure eFX would have something to say about it as it would be direct competition with their licence! I know I wouldnt be happy if I was given a licence to make a product and then find another licence was granted for almost the same thing which would kill your product.I would be putting in a halt to it.
I'm sure eFX doesn't have the Muppet license for all large plush. There are probably definitions and terms in their license to seperate it from the regular plush license. For instance "large plush with armatures with a quantity of less than 1,000" etc or there may even be a "specialist replica" category.
A license for ALL plush would be serious money that i doubt a small company could ever afford. Thats why i've always doubted eFX would be allowed to make a large replica plush without it being an articulated poser.
I don't know what kind of plush toys you guys are buying, but I've never seen a plush that could be mistaken for a real Muppet or even a poser. Unless you guys have some other definition of a plush toy that I'm not familiar with. High-end plush like Steiff are still plush toys. No one is going to make a Muppet plush out of Antron fleece for instance or use fuzzy sticky paper for irises that can be peeled off by a kid.
It's either a replica or it's a toy. I'm sorry, I don't see this gray area in the middle that you're looking for.
Yes, there have been some nice plush toys over the years and if you're just lamenting the dearth of Muppet product, then that I can understand. But saying that eFx should look into doing plush because the replicas are just too difficult is where I'm failing to grasp this concept.
Call me a dreamer, but I think there's much unexplored territory in-between the average plush and a 100% authentic, individually handmade poser.
One of those rungs belongs to the MR posers *and* whatever Rizzo or Kermit poser EFX releases through the factory process. The needle is already a few points over for this product due to the fact that each won't be build by a lifelong puppet building expert like the official ones they represent.
My idea is to tweak that needle just a little bit more if needed --- but (and this is the very important part I've been reiterating) --- as long as it doesn't compromise the appearance of how the character should look. There are some little changes that, IMHO, could not only help bring the product to market but in some cases could also make it look more authentic than trying to make it 100% authentic and falling short of the mark due to the nature of these being factory made in large batches rather than the far more intense individual attention received by real production posers.
I know many will disagree with this idea, but please don’t misunderstand what I’m saying. What you just described in your post is a far cry from anything I’ve stated and not what I would want either.
What people are refering to as realistic plush is the same manufacturing process as the posers(ie made by the same studio pattern and same or simular materials) but instead of putting it over a wire armature, it will just be soft filled like plush.So it will be a visual replica, but cheaper because the armature process isnt involved.
The armature is very simple. You can see pictures of it on the eFX website. That's the easiest part of building these. It's all the details that are the sticking points. If you start eliminating the details, then you would no longer have a replica OR a realistic looking plush.
Frogboy isnt saying get ris of the details, just to not use such high priced materials that require such attention to build...instead to look for materials that are cheaper sorta like the plushes...again as i said in the efx thread its like instead of making a 100* replica with the same materials make a 75% replica that looks awesome but is made of cheaper stuff
Exactly. The changes I was talking about have more to do with things like possibly using factory dyed fabric than individually hand dyed fabric for some items. Maybe having more uniformity in how the eyes are produced that might not only make it cheaper, but also could potentially insure that the eye focus is spot-on in every Rizzo. There are some things in the factory process that can actually work for these items instead of against them. I don't believe construction of these has to go against the grain in every step. Compromising the method doesn't have to mean compromising the quality.
I guess it's just a case of thinking differently to achieve a very similar outcome. Again, unless each poser is individually built by an expert they aren't going to be 100% accurate, authentic posers anyway. For some reason that keeps getting overlooked.
I'm just thinking out of the box because I do hope realistic-looking posable Muppets will come to the market.
I undertand from Bryans point that he wants us to finally have a "true replica". Something the MR did not deliver and the outcome about it. I am pretty sure he knows he has the ability to cut corners if disney was not in the way and what the contract says that eFX is agreed to make them the way Disney expects them to be. Also, when you put out there that they are truely authentic and later on to decide to cut corners, then your word ends up being like what MR went through. I give Bryan credit for doing his best whether we get these or not. At least he tried even with the outcome of all this mess of finding a factory to make them.
I understand that too and respect that decision. I just hope they can actually bring these to market someday. However, I will once again reiterate that since each of these EFX posers won't be individually built by an expert like the real ones - they aren't going to be 100% authentic...just as close as can be done. A completely accurate one would cost thousands of dollars.
i personally am at the point were i really don't even care anymore about the posers. I'm not going to get my hopes up about them until we have stuff actually in the works and in place. I just want something, anything, out on the market. You can't expect people to be refamiliarized with the product if there is nothing at all on the market (or so little and spread so thin that there might as well be nothing..) i want stuff! I've got a nearly 3 year old grand baby to be spoiling, and it's hard when about all the options are a few sesame characters over and over again and the few other things are either not suitable or way too pricey to be spending on a toddler.
there are more fans out there who don't know about this high end items because there is nothing to snag their initial interest to get them looking for more stuff. with MR there was a sincere lack of advertising except at select and exclusive events and on here.. so no one knew about them, but if they'd have had other things out there (or tie ins or more promotion) things might have gone better for them.. best way to see which characters are going to sell well with the higher end items is to put some lower end items out and see where the market goes. (yes, I'm a piggy fan, but I know better then to hold my breath...)
Well, I think that kind of goes without saying...although it's been said a bunch of times already .
You're right that they will never match a completely handmade product with a factory made product. But I think they can get closer than MR did. Especially when MR pulled stuff like shrinking the patterns without telling anyone.
But I think to be called a replica, they have to come as close as is humanly possible. The problem with the Muppets that they don't have with other prop replicas is that the Muppet builders themselves can't seem to make any two the same. So, there's a wide range of options for any one character. Is it from 1975? Is it from '85? '95? 2005? They all have differences.
One other difference this go around is that you've got the woman who was in charge of Henson's workshop since the 80's overseeing the prototypes and critiquing them with a fine tooth comb. (Don't get me wrong... I love, love, love Terry's protos for the three characters he did... this is just one more quality control step.)
Anyway, I still have confidence that if these get made at all, they will be made right!
I can agree with all of that. I just would like to see these made!
One thing going for fans on the plush side of things is that Disney seems to be filling more Muppet items in their flagship stores that seem to be on the rise again. I have no doubt that once the film comes out there will be some new Muppet plush somewhere.
Thats great, but to be fair, its completely and utterly pointless if at the point you start production at the factory, you find they just can't replicate the process well enough and just can't (or won't) handle it properly. We've seen from Master Replicas that you can have the best prototype in the world, with people Henson stitching their little hearts out but get to the point of the factory and even though they may have talked themselves up as being able to do the job, the posers come back with various design flaws and its too late to do anything about it.
I agree with you though that i think eFX seem to have a much higher aim in terms of exacty how "replica" these need to end up as, and thats great, but as to whether thats actualy technically possible we shall see.
I'll say this about the matter. If I wanted a replica, I'll make one myself. Heck, the only one I have now is a Kermit puppet, and that's good enough for me.
I know some guys who have made some amazing characters (Like the Beaker replica recently posted) and they have all the charm of something hand made rather than off the rack.
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