Interesting Gulf War News

[sidcrowe]

This should fix things:
http://www.barriesbestmagazine.com/archives.htm

Scroll down; there's a thumbnail titled "God bless America" the pic doesn't work if you click it, though.

I was 100% behind the USA when you were hit. If you could find the ones who did it, I'd be cheering. Osama in a building? Blow it up.

This is an invasion of a country...I don't think you're justified.

The USA isn't perfect. You still provide safety for the KKK–they are terrorists, who have killed blacks in the past. Maybe you need to be invaded, too. Who is the USA to walk the Earth, deciding to act outside of the United Nations?

Hitler had declared war, had taken over countries, and was advancing.

Iraq was surrounded and crawling with UN inspectors. It's hardly the same situation with Hitler. You think you deserve to invade with a giant-size military because you're fed up with waiting? Try something else. Try putting UN human rights inspectors in for a while, and threaten attack if any more injustices take place. Trying things takes time when you are working with the safety of the world. As long as Saddam was surrounded, and didn't do anything while surrounded, the USA had a moral obligation to exhaust every single feasible option before invading.

What, was Iraq on your borders, threatening to advance? No, they weren't.

You didn't like what Iraq did in the past? What about you, are you perfect?

Russia didn't treat blacks as you did. The Klan isn't welcome to march in the streets in Russia as it is in the USA. Your own LAPD beat Rodney King almost to death, just because he was BLACK.

Do my words anger you? Yeah, well...they're only marks on a computer screen. They are silent and harmless. You can walk away from my words.

Iraq cannot walk away from your bombs.

It is NOT your country!

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
----------
Samuel P. Huntington

 

[sidcrowe]

From the Toronto Star, for your consideration.
Source link:
http://www.AWOLBush.com/

Nov. 17, 2002. What did Dubya do in the war, daddy?


It's often said that people just won't go into politics any more because of the intense media scrutiny one faces for even the smallest indiscretion in one's past. In fact, the media are temperamental beasts; fierce one day, gentle as lambs the next.

Certainly the media showed its soft side last week. As George W. Bush piously observed Veterans Day, media pundits somehow restrained themselves from pointing to the irony that the U.S. Commander-in-Chief, who's sometimes referred to as a "former fighter pilot," has an embarrassing military past. His records show that for months at a time during the Vietnam War, Bush could be classified as, at best, "absent without leave" (AWOL) or, at worst, as an army deserter.

This would be equivalent to the media withholding comment as former U.S. President Bill Clinton publicly espoused the virtues of marital fidelity.

Indeed, one hardly needs to wait for Veterans' Day to note the irony in Bush's military fervour. The man can scarcely contain his enthusiasm for war — or at least for others going to war. As he inches closer each day to sending tens of thousands of American soldiers into Iraq (to be followed likely by hundreds of Canadian soldiers), any day would be appropriate for the media to satisfy its allegedly insatiable appetite for dirt on the rich and powerful by reporting the president's own military past.

The legwork has already been done by the Boston Globe, which dug up Bush's military records and interviewed his former military commanders.

While the paper published its dramatic findings during the presidential campaign of 2000, the rest of the media all but ignored the story and continue to do so, even as Bush has turned himself into arguably the most hawkish president in U.S. history.

It's not that the media are not hard on military laggards. While there were only 49 media stories about Bush's military past during his presidential campaign, there were a whopping 13,641 media reports on Clinton's Vietnam-era draft dodging during his first presidential race, according to former Clinton aide Paul Begala.

Begala made the observation on a media panel at a labour conference shortly after Bush's election. Other panelists, including journalists from major TV networks and Time magazine, agreed that Bush had had a much gentler ride, but attributed it to the media's alleged exhaustion after all the Clinton-era scandals.


Of course, it's possible Bush was so morally repelled by the U.S. slaughter in Vietnam that he just couldn't bring himself to participate. But probably not. Here's what we know.

Upon graduating from Yale, Bush applied for a position in the Texas National Guard, a coveted spot that required only part-time military duties at home, far from the battlefields of Vietnam. Bush was catapulted to the front of 500 other applicants after a friend of his father, then a wealthy Houston congressman, phoned the Speaker of the Texas House, according to the Boston Globe.

After completing training as a pilot, George W. Bush requested and immediately received a transfer to an Alabama National Guard unit in May, 1972. But Bush never showed up for duty there, according to the Alabama unit's commander and the commander's assistant, who were interviewed by the Boston Globe.

Military records show that Bush's two commanding officers back in Texas reported George W. did not show up for duty there either for a year, and that they believed he had been transferred to Alabama. Meanwhile, when Bush failed to take his required annual medical exam in August, 1972, his pilot status was removed.

It should be noted that reporting for military duty is not something that's optional, particularly during a war. Those caught shirking National Guard duties were usually punished by being drafted into the real army — the one that landed you in Vietman, where some 350 American soldiers were killed each week. But, despite more than a year absent from duty, nothing happened to the well-connected George W. Bush.

Favouritism is a sore point among those who actually went to war, including U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell. As Powell wrote in his autobiography: "I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed ... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units ... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal ..."

You've got to marvel at Powell's anger management skills.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda McQuaig is a Toronto-based author and political commentator who appears every Sunday.

 

[MuppetsRule]

Sidcrowe

Get off your holier-than-thou soap box!

Sugarbritches was not making light of the seriousness of war but merely trying to bring some relief to a very intense debate (likewise for those that have been using smilies). To criticize her because she attempted to bring some levity to the debate is hypocritical of you. In an earlier post regarding the current war in Iraq you said "This topic has Z-E-R-O humour in it."

But if you click on the home page of the website you provided (http://www.barriesbestmagazine.com/archives.htm) it leads you to Crowe magazine (I'll let others draw their own conclusions as to whether there is a connection to you or not). On that page is a link to The Onion (a satirical newspaper for those that aren't familiar with it). The headlines of the current issue (March 19) read
Military Promises 'Huge Numbers' for Gulf War II: The Vengeance. The artical goes on to make fun of the current military campaign comparing it to a press release for a movie sequel.

Also of note is your criticism of Jay Leno and his making fun of the O.J. Simpson stuff to this day. In that same issue of The Onion (right next to the first headline) is a headline that reads "McDonald's Drops 'Hammurderer' Character from Advertising" complete with a picture of a hammurderer mascot carrying a bloodied knife. The first paragraph of the article is as follows:

"Bowing to outcry from consumers and parents groups, the McDonald's Corporation announced Monday that it is discontinuing its new advertising mascot, "The Hammurderer," a mischievous, homicidal imp who kills McDonaldland characters and takes their sandwiches."

Another paragraph reads:

"But the uproar over the latest commercial, in which Birdie The Early Bird is garroted by the Hammurderer and her body tossed in a Dumpster, was vociferous enough to prompt the fast-food giant to pull the plug."

If I was the family of a murder victim who was killed with a knife and then dumped in a dumpster as happened in my city just recently I wouldn't find this article too amusing.

Is there something about murder or the ongoing war in Iraq that you are able to find humor in? Why is it that you criticize others for a small attempt at humour and yet you plug a website that does the same thing and has a much larger circulation? I guess when it fits the framework of your argument it is OK.

 

[sidcrowe]

Muppetsrule: Get out of Iraq–––then I'll get off the horse.

People are getting killed right now, Sugar says replace bombs with toys, ends with "teee hee heee." Very childish as the bombs are falling. All of your 9/11 coverage was very solemn...as it SHOULD be. I just put forth the notion that if we made jokes hours after 9/11, it would be shouted down. It seems okay for everybody to laugh in a debate about an invasion.......as long as your people aren't freshly killed, right?

It was in poor taste.

I didn't make any jokes like that on this board during the 9/11 aftermath. I was serious and wished people well.

I even told people on this thread to be extra careful. I won't name who they were, but they know who they are. I'm not a creep...I just don't agree with your attack.

As for the onion.com, it is a satirical online magazine. I have had that link button up for over a year and a half. The content changes every week. I am not responsible for their content.

Your argument, trying to link the opinions of the onion with my own, holds as much water as blaming Phil Chapman for every sick porno book available at amazon.com.

The link to my website shows Sam the eagle and says "GOD BLESS AMERICA."

I really don't know how much proof you need that I am for America, and was outraged by 9/11. I am also against the American invasion, and so is the United Nations, and organization that has been ruined by your reckless President Bush.

Click and scroll down: God bless America
http://www.barriesbestmagazine.com/archives.htm

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by sidcrowe
Luke, I can't seriously think you'd like to be there, or would prefer to be hit with a bomb rather than an annoying toy. Don't take my word for it. Ask the old people in your area retirement homes, the WWII vets, if they find the video and area to be "thrilling."

Yeah i was joking a bit about the Elmo stuff but my original comment stands, i actually probably would take up an offer to be in Baghdad. I wouldn't enjoy seeing other people get hurt but yes i think it would be an interesting experience to be a part of the overall story. I've worked briefly in news journalism before and covered train crashes, a drive by shooting where we were live on air, and was working the night of Princess Diana's death. I also worked for a year at 'Canary Wharf' - a WTC like tower in London that was bombed (though i was not there at the time) by the IRA and continued to be a terrorist target. While i don't take any glory or get any excitement out of what actually happened, i certainly can't change the events and the 'buzz' or 'thrill' you get is of being involved (or even on the scene) in a breaking story and bringing that into the homes of millions of people so they can experience the highs and lows of it too.

I'm not a complete idiot though, obviously being a press person in a war or around a dangerous story is a situation where you are protected better, situated in safe places and are taking a lot fewer risks than civilians being bombed or pilots risking their lives fighting wars, but there is obviously some risk element involved but then thats part of the job you learn to do.

 

[frogboy4]

The General Discussion section of Muppet Central provides users a wonderful place to speak your mind about a variety of non-Muppet related topics. However, this is not a section where personal attacks or inflaming others is acceptable. Please keep this a civil discussion. I don't want to see this thread shut down. I think we are all capable of mature discussion. This message is not pointed to any individual. It is a reminder for everybody to keep perspective. These are troubled times and we are all passionate, but it does not excuse bad behavior. Thank you.

 

[sidcrowe]

Luke: Wow, I thought you were gonna take my head off.

I hope I'm not creating irreperable rifts between peoiple I've known for a long time here.

I was respectful of 9/11 when it happened, and was behind America totally. No one here will remember any opposition from me. I didn't complain when Afghanistan was bombed, either.

I think the invasion of Iraq is wrong.

The Dixie Chick's lead singer agrees, too.

 

[Zack the Dog]

This semester I am taking an intro to Sociolgy class in college. This is the first time I have ever taken a class like this or any of it's kind, it really makes you think differently about things and become opened minded about everything.

I have looked at both sides of war and peace so to speak. I have also listend carefuly to what other people have said around me. Either I heard to on the radio or tv, from my friends and family, people here at MC, and people I work with and so on. I have actualy taken notes on what people have said and have thought about each one...It's weird, I don't think I would be doing this if I wasn't taking this Sociolgy class now. Putting school knowlage to use?, here's a first!

Well here are some of the different thoughts and views about everything that is happing during this time, so there really isn't any order and it's kinda random but i'm sharing this. If you have any comments on these, just keep in mind that they are NOT my thougths, even if I am for or againts them these are what other's have said. I'm not really going to give names,you wouldn't know the people anyways and most of this stuff I got off the radio so I wouldn't know either. I think it's better to keep it private anyways.

Keep in mind they could be wrong, they could be right, they may even be down right rude, but none of these have come from my own lips.
___________________________________________________


"Cananda doesn't think the war is right because noting has happend to them, lets say if it was one of their large towers, then it would be a different story..."


" This just proves that the UN is falling apart, i mean, what? Is it like Sidamm who hasn't followed the UN rules for years is now going to them saying this war is not justifiyed?? Give me a break..."


" I'm a canandian and I suport what the US has to do, I would even give my life for America"


" I'd give my life for no one but my family!"


" I can't belive that we have to pay to fix Irai once this is all over!"


" Oh we don't have to, we are going to, but we don't have to pay"


" as long as i don't hear the word D.R.A.F.T, everything will be fine."'


" If it was my child who was captured, I would be kicking and screaming right now, I would be pounding my body againts the walls, I would be hitting my husband, I would just want to die"


" I don't think we should have just gone to war without warning them, like how pear harbor happend, this way we have given Sidamm every single chance, now what's done has to be done"


"I am a citizen of the world, not any contry"


"I think because people in Cananda booed at that hocky game during the national anthem, we should bomb them next!"


" If your supporting peace and no war then your supporting Sidamm and giving him time to plan a whole world attack"


"There are people out there that don't know you but want to hurt you and your way of life"
____________________________________________________


Ok I'm back...lots of different opintions huh? Yeah and i have more too, I not really sure what job field i want to get into yet, but maybe Sociolgy is something i'd like to get into. i was scard i wouldn't understand it but just looking at how everyone thinks is amazing, how one person can have so much compastion and another hate or revenge, there are sooooo many diffrent thoughts on this and every single person on this planet has one.

Take what you will, I didn't want to offend anyone by this, it's reseach i have collected, feel free to talk about them if you like, just remember they are not my thoughts, you could post what you have heard from others if you want to.

Zachary) Rowlf the, I did homework and it wasn't even real homework??...and for once i didn't eat it and it's not due! Dog.

 

[GPrime1]

Not too many of the people you spoke to liked Canada too much huh? Yeah, I guess 'cause we're too clean and we still have trees. But seriously, I'd like to clear up the kind of near-sighted views that some of these people had about Canada's position on this whole thing because it upsets me a little. I'm not directing this at you Zack, don't get that impression, maybe you can pass this info along though. First of all, I think out of most nations in the world we were probably the most sympathetic and accomodating after the events of 9/11. To say that we were not affected by what had happened is unfair. We sent firefighters and rescue workers down to New York that very day and all of our airports opened up to take in incoming international flights (i.e. putting us at risk as well) because of the events transpiring in New York and Washington. We have worked with US in increasing border security and we have been supportive of the intitial forays into Afghanistan, etc.

Now, since then, what has the US done. Well, the two biggest things I can think of that have really turned public opinion against the US are the tariffs placed on softwood lumber (despite a Free Trade Agreement), and a Canadian citizen who had been born in Syria and immigrated to Canada years ago, who had fled his country as a political refugee, went to the US last year on a business trip, and then never returned home. You know why? Because officials at JFK Airport saw that he was of Arab decent, checked his passport which of course indicated his place of birth, and shipped him off to Syria. Has his family heard from him since? No. Did they get an explanation? No. Was there an apology made? Not to my knowledge. In other words, the States expect this kind of unanimous international support from the nations across the world in the various campaigns they involve themselves in, but their international relations suck. Do we want to risk our people's lives for a country who really doesn't seem to care about how their actions affect us and the rest of the world? Do we want to participate in a campaign that is based entirely on what is hoped to be found, rather than what is evident? I would say no. Unlike the US, I'd like to respect the fact that Canada has decided to keep its guns in its pants (well, due to a shortage of guns, maybe hockey sticks).

Despite all of this, our government (and a majority of the population)simply just does not agree with the US course of action, but that does not mean we hate Americans. Yes, the behaviour of fans at the Montreal game last week was offensive and uncalled for, but I doubt there was a person in the room who thought that bombing America would make a difference. I find it offensive that someone should say we should be bombed next! What is that?? That's the kind of impression that the rest of the world is getting about the US right now, and comments like that make those impressions justified! That just goes back to the notion of playground politics that has been circulating amongst many of the posts here. I'll take this time to mention that when the Toronto Blue Jays were in the World Series in what '91 '92?, the US Marines presented the Canadian flag UPSIDE DOWN at the opening of one of the games!! God, if that had been us who had done the same with the American flag, God forbid, I'm afraid to think what would have happened...

Canada is a country that has decided to stick with the resolutions made by the UN, that may sound unfair to our neighbours to the south, but we are at least abiding by international law.

 

[sidcrowe]

Well, yeah...that's the other thing.

Now the UN has become somewhat irrelevant. And the precedent has been set for this to be done again.

What if the Turks stir up trouble with the Kurds? What if they don't stop? Well, there'll be a U.S. base in Iraq now, so why not advance on Turkey if they don't mind their business?

People think I'm anti-American, I'm just philisophically opposed to an omnipotent superpower that roams the world as it pleases, but isn't controlled by a unifying body...or God.

I mean, who IS anyone to wield such power?

Oops...just tripped on an empty whiskey bottle. The Bush daughters must've left it behind