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Interesting Gulf War News

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Luke, Mar 15, 2003.

  1. tomahawk

    tomahawk Well-Known Member

    Thats what I've been trying to say Gprime1. The situation thats been set up by the Bush administration does sort of mirror Hitler with what was going on in Germany. Kind of ironic that his granpappy, Prescott Bush financed the rise of Hitler by donating 1.5 million dollars and running the Thyssen steel works near Auschwitz on slave labor. There is also info floating around that the invasion of Iraq was drawn up a few years before it happend.www.sundayherald.com/27735
  2. GPrime1

    GPrime1 Well-Known Member

    Interesting link you posted. Scares me, but not altogether impossible to imagine. Seems like a kind of "New Fascism" tailored for the 21st century. Actually, the idea doesn't seem entirely improbable when you think about it. Propoganda, lots of flags, manipulation of the media, public disaproval of dissenters, expansionist ideologies, sheesh. Some of these things just need to be taken to the next level and we have a government that is very much in line with the kinds of policies that Hitler and Mussolini enforced during the 20s, 30s, and 40s. What are the details regarding this document pertaining to the policies of Bush's cabinet, is it accessible to the public? Are there any mainstream media in the States that would publish or report on a story like this? I'd hate to think that the actions taken by the US government over the last 2 years have been devoted to excercising this plan. It would make me think that with the amount of information the government had in terms of Al Queda's plans for Sept 11 that they let it happen any way, so that they could legitimize their aims. What better way to gather public support than let your own people die? Heck, Churchill did it, and it worked.
  3. tomahawk

    tomahawk Well-Known Member

    It's entirely possible that this is happening. and the thing is all of the news here, all they are showing is how great this all is. New U.S.A. tattoos are on the rise, all of the yellow ribbons etc. etc. Like you mentioned, all of the flags. Its very scary. It's almost lke there is never a dissenting side shown on network T.V. anymore. And people always complain about the media being so left and liberal.
  4. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    Gee, you're right tomahawk. To think that President Bush pulled this Hitler-like grand scheme for world domination over on the United States public, the Senate, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court, the media, the government intelligence agencies, other country's governments, etc. is amazing. And what is even more amazing is the fact that it was done by a man who is so stupid, as you claim.

    Just amazing!

  5. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Excuse me - are we watching the same media ? That is the biggest load of baloney from all the baloney. The whole idea of the media being embedded in the Military means that any of their errors or goofs are highly publicised over the entire western media, large portions of the daytime news are given over to covering Iraqi press conferences full of their propoganda live - just in the first week the media has been filled with stories of the advance going too slow, the Iraqi's being tougher than they planned for and all the friendly fire incidents etc. In comparison, the journalists in Iraq's movements are much more restricted, and the Iraqi TV only contains their own version of events, they don't exactly take Rumsfields press briefings live. We are living in Allied Coallition countries, of course there is going to be some element of patriotism, but at least we show the other side too - the Iraqi's don't do that at all. Even in the run up to the war, the major news emphasis was on the anti-war movement far more than any pro-war views, and the allies failure to get the security council votes.

    As for plans for the invasion of Iraq being drawn up in advance - well like DUH - the military war plan for EVERY situation years ahead that could arrive. I'd imagine they've had Iraq invasions plans continously since 1991 - you'll probably find they have Korean and Russian ones too. It's kinda what they're paid for. You see the president doesn't just get out of bed and decide to invent some law or invade some country - obviously they have the overall say but generally they're going to just supervise the work and plans of others - as in the military and intelligence agencies - people who have been in place and working in the same direction even before Dubya came into power.

    Seriously, you come out with some really wierd stuff - are you sure you wouldn't rather be on some wacky conspiracy site rather than Muppet Central ?
  6. Skeeter Muppet

    Skeeter Muppet Well-Known Member

    Ohh....so that's what I've been seeing flying out the window around here...

  7. GPrime1

    GPrime1 Well-Known Member

    Hmmm, well, I've always backed up my posts with fact. You'll notice how I always question rather than make concrete claims. I've made speculations based on history and the comparison of events, and questioned the similiarity between those events. If you stop questioning then you let someone else think for you. So, when I said "let's keep this discussion educated and thought provoking," I've simply stated what many other people have said before. Let's stop this pointless bickering and discuss the issues. Question the issues. If you have something to say back it up. For example, both Luke and tomahawk both have VERY different views, but they both back them up with valid information. That's what I respect, as we're able to learn from the points that they make and make more educated decisions regarding this conflict becuase of them.
  8. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Well-Known Member

    There was an article in my local paper this morning about natural dietary supplements, herbs, roots etc. (Stay with me here, there's a connection coming) The article focused on all the downsides. It talked about some pretty scary side effects that people frequently don't know about when they take these things. It talked about people seeing the label 'natural' and assuming that means 'safe.' All of that is true and people should know the risks before they ingest something.

    However, the article did not mention the positive sides of natural supplements. It didn't talk about how some people get relief from chronic medical conditions via natural supplements or how some people are able to use supplements in place of chemically engineered drugs that have far worse side effects.

    My point is there are two sides to everything. Frequently more than two sides. The article I read would have been more accurate if it had covered the pros as well as the cons. Everyone has their own take on the war and the events that led up to the war. Remember that people who interpret the information differently than you do are not stupid and are not necessarily poorly informed. They just have a different way of viewing the facts and different conclusions. Nothing wrong with that.

    Try to focus the discussion on the facts and interpretations and not on the individuals. Comparing anyone to Hitler is a loaded statement and likely to offend people. Public figures on both sides of the war have been throwing Hitler refrences around and it is reasonable to discuss that here. However, please be extra careful when doing so as people are likely to be angered by it. Flame wars do not generate meaningful communication and will not make agood case for either side.
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I agree. This certainly has been an interesting thread, but both sides must remember that the intention should not be to recruit other people to one side or to think that they are unintelligent for taking a different stance on the issues.

    This is a forum for discussion - mainly discussion about the Muppets. I have noticed that many members have become focused only on war threads for the past month. It's fine to post about things other than Muppets or figures, but lets not lose sight that this is a Muppet forum. There are many much better places on the web to have in-depth debates on politics. It should not be anyone's focus for being here.

    We all have different opinions. Let's respectfully discuss them rather than angrily filibuster our war views, whatever they might be. This message is meant for all of us who have been passionate on this topic. It’s so easy to lose perspective. :)
  10. sarah_yzma

    sarah_yzma Well-Known Member

    *puts tape down middle of room*

    oh...that isn't what you meant???? awwww



    i actually did get the connection...AND I'M BLOND!!!

  11. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Forget the war discussion - it's more fun to watch the moderators out-moderate each other. So far i've got Annika ahead on points for linking herb injestion to the bias in news articles (which worked well, but took some skill) - but Jamie is edging back with his use of the word 'Filibuster' !

  12. GPrime1

    GPrime1 Well-Known Member

    I agree, more words like 'filibusters!'
  13. Kye

    Kye Well-Known Member

    I think we have a few of those here on muppet central
  14. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Well-Known Member

    How about 'vigilance'? As in: the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. *sigh* Filibuster was better.

    But I thought it was tag-team moderating, I didn't know we were competing. Jamie, was there a memo about this? I didn't get the memo. :zany:
  15. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Um...you're it! (runs):zany: :concern:
  16. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Well-Known Member

    I'm it.

    Not gunna give me much to work with here, are you Jamie?

    Okay, it... the It girl. Clara Bow. Silent movies. Flappers. Prohibition. Scott and Zelda. Which gets us to the Depression, which brings us around to WWII, which gets us back to war and (sort of?) connects this all together.

    Maybe I should just give up and get some sleep.

    Your turn, Frogboy.
  17. FellowWLover

    FellowWLover Well-Known Member

  18. byl

    byl New Member

    This 'war'

    I have to wonder what news channels you are watching. I have seen spots on community conflict over differing opinions about the war, peace watch events, demonstrations (peaceful and otherwise), and a number of personal opinion spots. My favorite is the 'AMERICAN FRIES' bit. Despite the differing opinions of the current governments involved, I have not forgotten the nationality of the beautiful lady in NY harbor. Nor have I forgotten what she means. I doubt if the French have forgotten all of the US lives lost freeing France from Nazi rule in WWII.

    I am in favor of the war, and of the opinion that we should have started this roughly 10 years ago when the first UN inspectors were thrown out of Iraq the first time. I spent 23 years in uniform, and would have gone then if called. I do not hate. I wish war were never neccessary. I believe that hesitation in the face of the nessecity of war only makes things worse and more difficult.

    Please feel free to disagree. I am, as are all those who have worn the uniform of the military forces of the United States of America, sworn to protect your right to speak freely and without fear any idea you might have. However silly.
  19. BoyRaisin2

    BoyRaisin2 Well-Known Member

    Re: This 'war'

    Amen, sir, and thank you for your service.
  20. Skeeter Muppet

    Skeeter Muppet Well-Known Member



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