Kermit at the MTV Video Music Awards

majortom1981

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wow

You guys are awfully harsh. How in the world can you really judge the guy doing Kermit right now from these short showings?

Like some of you said. Steve has been doing it for 19 years. Give artie a chance.

I cant belive some of you are saying no muppets at all if steve doesn't do it. Do you hear what you guys are saying?

Also at d23 they said there are other things that cant be announced for all we know steve could be filming Kermit stuff and cant attend these appearances. I think we should cut artie a little slack.

OF course somebody just starting out as kermit will not be as good as somebody who has spent 19 years doing being kermits puppeteer.
 

Drtooth

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I agree we shouldn't speculate about Steve. In the end the performers are all freelancers. Scheduling isn't always an easy task. I just hope somebody gives us news soon!
hey... I just don't want rumors to get so far out of hand that we think that he's dying. That's a dangerous mindset. Especially when the answer could just be something simplistic.
 

Reevz1977

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What I personally don't understand is, if Steve is busy with other projects, where is the harm in keeping Kermit from our screens? Other Muppets have appeared on shows on their own without Kermit, why sour the Muppets with lacklustre performances such as these. For Muppet fans its just plain irritating and from a brand point of view, almost devaluing the Muppets to a degree. There needs to be a contingency plan, we all know that, and without Steve, Kermit could have died with Jim but this is a completely different kettle of fish. It's almost like Disney have little regard for the Muppets and the Muppet fanbase.
 

frogboy4

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Not a good flipper forward

You guys are awfully harsh. How in the world can you really judge the guy doing Kermit right now from these short showings?

Like some of you said. Steve has been doing it for 19 years. Give artie a chance.

I cant belive some of you are saying no muppets at all if steve doesn't do it. Do you hear what you guys are saying?

Also at d23 they said there are other things that cant be announced for all we know steve could be filming Kermit stuff and cant attend these appearances. I think we should cut artie a little slack.

OF course somebody just starting out as kermit will not be as good as somebody who has spent 19 years doing being kermits puppeteer.
I guess many of us just don't think we should be seeing a replacement Kermit at all. Steve's Kermit is Kermit.

Everyone here is grading the performance and not the person. We all like Artie.

For the Muppets to work the persona must be cultivated as an extension of the individual performer rather than the key characters being tossed around to different people. That's what keeps the Muppets from being the hollow icon we saw in Kermit last night on MTV and on AGT last week. Every Muppet-grade puppeteer is able to get something better than that across no matter how brief the appearance.

I believe the Muppets should always continue no matter what the bumps along the way. This is certainly one of them. I didn't believe in this Kermit. To me it looked like a puppet and not a character. :sympathy:
 

dwmckim

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I'm sorry but i though the VMA appearance was worse than AGT. People were talking about how Kermit seemed mumbley and i didn't think it was that bad - but at VMA's it totally sounded like the performer had gumballs in his mouth - it was really kind of distracting because the unintentional end result was that it came across as if Kermit had engaged in WAY too much bubbley enroute in the limo.

When it comes right down to it, by and large fans want their performers to succeed. I want to root for Artie and i'm sure the various feedbacks on his performances must be a bit heartbreaking to read. I accept the concept of understudies more than other people here and if this is on-the-job training experience with Steve's support and guidance, i can live with that the same way i have zero issues with and am largely in favor of Matt Vogel's playing Big Bird 1/3-1/2 of the time these days (or the same way i felt about Eric and David's having been groomed to take over Frank's characters). The raw potential is there - but right now that's ALL i'm seeing...raw potential.

The two things we saw were good Kermit performances; not bad but not nearly what they should be when you're having someone play The Lead Muppet Character at two highly watched events (even if the performances were short). Steve is top-notch. We're going to notice a difference in overall quality even if a longtime very skilled Muppeteer was subbing. I can understand not having a "first tier" Muppeteer take over because you need to have Kermit "free" to interact with the other top gun Muppeteer's characters if this change lasts for awhile. But why did they skip over the numerous amount of way more skilled and nuanced Muppeteers on the second and third tiers and pluck someone straight out of the bottom tier? It shows bigtime that it's someone who doesn't have the needed experience doing this. It makes the Muppets as a property look bad.

The fact that none of us even knows why this is happening makes it worse - we're too preoccupied with wondering what happened to Steve and if all this is going on with his blessing or not that we can't even bring ourselves to enjoy Artie's interpretation even if it was a lot better. At least when John Tartaglia subbed for Ernie on Play With Me Sesame, that was (a) a very low visibility project - you had to have an upstart minor cable channel to see it (b) that was taped well enough in advance before airing so that by the time it did air and we saw a change, we already saw that Steve was still busy and doing lots of stuff in the meantime so there wasn't any worry or concern like this is all now basically happening in "real time".

We really do need answers. Like i say, Artie could do another appearance as Kermit and manage to totally knock it right out of the park and be absolutely brilliant but until we know what the deal is, it's hard to be all that appreciative (but speaking of appreciation, i do feel obliged to add my disclaimer that despite the hits he's taking...from myself included...i do appreciate the fact that he is doing it - again Artie's not the "bad guy" in this and he's doing a very thankless task by filling those flippers. I just wish that his performances were just better than merely "adequate" and leave me thinking "wrong choice; wrong time". I want to see him - or whoever else may perform Kermit - really succeed. But right now all i'm seeing is "servicable" performances, nothing "great", "impressive" or anywhere near "Steve-worthy". There's a reason we fans sometimes call him "Stevie Wonder" ya know!)
 

ohtherain

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Artie you did fine, considering that this is only your second appearance as the frog. I'm just asking for an explanation. Dave, Bill, Eric, and David Rudman were all at the D23 expo, presumably Steve too (but he didn't do any interviewing or meet and greet as Kermit or Rizzo or someone else) so it was possible that he was tracked. If all four guys were there, and Eric was at AGT, then the Steve issue is something above a "Save the Muppets" sort of thing. Something is happening with Steve and I hope that we know soon.
 

Drtooth

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The fact that none of us even knows why this is happening makes it worse - we're too preoccupied with wondering what happened to Steve and if all this is going on with his blessing or not that we can't even bring ourselves to enjoy Artie's interpretation even if it was a lot better. At least when John Tartaglia subbed for Ernie on Play With Me Sesame, that was (a) a very low visibility project - you had to have an upstart minor cable channel to see it (b) that was taped well enough in advance before airing so that by the time it did air and we saw a change, we already saw that Steve was still busy and doing lots of stuff in the meantime so there wasn't any worry or concern like this is all now basically happening in "real time".
I think that's exactly, exactly nail on the head stuff right there... it's not so much just that we have an alternate Kermit that's bothersome... it's that we have an alternate Kermit with no reasons why... and again, we'll wind up speculating ourselves into Boobery Telly-esque worrywarts until we find a real answer. Even if his performance was 100% channeling Jim Henson, we'd still be wondering if something was happening. personally, I wanna say Steve's busy... but I don't know with what. Can't be Sesame Street if Eric and David are there. Heck, first time I saw a skit with Eric performing Grover, I was more worried something happened with Frank Oz than the fact he sounded off. But we all know it was because of his film career now, so... I'm guessing we'll find out the answer, and it may be something ridiculously simple.

That said, I hope whatever the next muppet performance is they either have Steve back as Kermit, or just have non-Steve characters... besides... Much as I love the frog, if you want to go out there and sell the Muppets back to the public, you don't just give them the same Kermit and Piggy stuff.... I wanna see Fozzie, the Electric Mayhem (or any member thereof), Gonzo, Pepe, Scooter... heck, recast Luncheon Counter Monster. Even Fleet Scibbler would be a welcome change.
 

dwmckim

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Now you KNOW i would be all over a Fleet comeback! (Besides of course his latest little cameo you-know-where and if you don't i'm not spoilering it for you) - i just posted a wild totally out-there so-crazy-it-just-might-work theory on what's going on with Steve in the Steve Whitmire petition thread - and if that happened, wouldn't be just be the bee's knees to have Fleet rush up onstage and cover the whole scandal when that "reveal" climaxes?
 

rtgentry

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I think artie sounded fine. i didnt see the video, just heard the audio. But it sounded good. he sounded and talked like kermit
 

TML

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I have two thoughts on this, if anyone cares.

1: It was obvious he was trying to keep Kermit moving when he wasn't being talked to to seem "alive", but he looked like a chicken pecking. These weird jerky forward head moves. Seemed awkward.

2: Some of you have posted that he shouldn't be there or with Lady GaGa or what ever, like she's not good enough. Right now, like it or not, she is so HOT in the pop culture scene, so it was actually great exposure for Kermit. Made him seem cool to a whole other generation that thinks Muppets are stuffed animals with some dude's arm up their _ _ _. Just kids stuff. And need I remind you of the Elton John Muppet appearance. She isn't much different than he was in his younger wild costume years.
 
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