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Muppets' Wizard of Oz cast list

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Phillip, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    I posted this a while back in a diffeent forum, but this will explain where I am comming from.

    OK, I understand that a lot of people will have overlooked this, and that is cool because unless you know about it, or have seen Moulin Rouge you probably do not know what exactly I am talking about.

    Absenth ( I am not sure about the spelling) is a very old drink that is outlawed here in the states; in fact there are not too many places that you can get it any more outside of Europe/ Germany. I do not know exactly how it is produced, but it is an alcoholic drink and lime green in color, but it is truly more than that. Absenth, if you can stand to drink enough of it is more like a delusional drug. I think that it has opium, or in some ways the same effects as opium on its users, and it is like drinking pure alcohol. Typically a sugar cube is heated on a spoon above the glass until it begins to melt and bubble, then it is quickly dropped into the Absenth stirred and then you drink it. The sugar makes the absenth only slightly more palatable, and it is rumored that the great artist Toulouse-Lautrec drank absenth, over indulged in it and alcohol eventually killed him. In the film Moulin Rouge Toulouse and his theater troupe along with the young man who falls in love with Satin all drink Absenth.

    Now for the Muppets and there production of Moulin Scrooge, Kermit comes out on stage and gets a mug full of as he calls it a funny strange green root beer (Absenth). And then Robin comes flying out of the liquid as the green fairy, this obvious reference to being on an alcohol or Absenth induced trip.

    Which shocked the **** out of me, they had of course watered it down but suddenly I realized that it was almost like telling kids that it was ok to do drugs because you might get to meet the green fairy. This refrence comes directly from the film Moulin Rouge, but again I stress the fact that this is only my opinion.

    If it is not Absenth then what is that green liquil Kermit is holding in the mug supposed to be?

    Again I have got to stress that this is only my opinion, I do not want any one to think or feel that i am stating facts here. i also feel like this is turning into a battle of words, and I really di dnot intend for that to happen. I understand that many of you think I am nuts and that the points I have made are foolish or silly. And that is your right to feel that way, we will probably never agree 100% on the subject.

    I know what propecia is, I just do not understand why Sam would need or even want it. As you said he is a bald eagel, and looks lame with those feathers on his head. No to mention that it really just killed the magic for me, and I thought it was just plain dumb. He is so dignafied, and does not worry about what he looks like or what others think of him. he is the inbodyment of justice, right from wrong, good old fashioned American values, and what is socially acceptable, not a cheap commerical for the hair club for birds.

    As I have mentioned before the Old Muppet show and Muppet specials did have some things that were on a more adult level (drinking, sexuality), yes I agree with that, the points you all have made are infact correct. But when Jim was around there was a moral standard, not to mention a performance standard, and I find IAVMMC to be lacking in those 2 things. Out side of the characters, and there motivation, this was just very poorly done. Jim always new how to seperate what would be the more adult, from things that were more for kids. Letting a child watch the special unknowing that there would be adult things in there is unfair to the viewers and to the kids.

    Look at it like this, films like the Dark Crystal, Labrinth, Dream Child, and Return to OZ (not all of them were 100% Henson films I know) cam with the the knowledge that they may not be for very young children.
    I have to take issue when a 5 year old asks me what a topliss club is for? Whay doesn't kermit want to be born? Why is he so sad? What's a Pick pocket for? You all may feel differnt when you have kids, as for me i think the Muppet magic has taken a turn for the worse with this special and was seriously lacking.
     
  2. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    Wow ok so i get your point on the Drink thing i do think that was wrong, but come on it was just a movie.
     
  3. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    I updated my post above, and that is all i have to say about it.
     
  4. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Ok, yes, I do now understand.

    For kids, it is not a good film. And I wouldn't let kids watch it, but for those of us older who still like the Muppets it is a good(ish) muppet film.

    That is all I have to say.
     
  5. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    Well Said

    well said, good(ish) is a great term for it.
     
  6. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    Muppets Wizard of OZ

    I was wondering id any one knows if there will be original songs in this film. I really hope that there are songs, but I do not want it to be a repeat of the MGM film.
     
  7. pppapazo

    pppapazo New Member

    Oz will definitely have original songs. I'm pretty sure that at least one will be just for Ashanti, but I read an interview with the composer (he did the score for The Incredibles) and we are definitely getting new Muppet music for this one.
     
  8. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I am pretty sure there will be no (maybe one?) MGM songs, becasue it has been said (somwhere) that they didn't get copywrite to do them (as far as I understood, anyway...)

    So, being as Ashanti is a singer, and also being as she was (it seems from the trailer) trying out for Muppet Star Hunt (or whatever is was exactly, I can't quite remeber) she probably sings at least one song at the begining (near the begining) of the film, and judging from that I would assume she will also round the film out with a similar/same song at the end in the Bookend fasion. Also, Muppet films have a tendancy to have a song somewhere in the middle as a turning point, (Everyone Matters) Sooo. We can think there will be about three songs (whether original or not I don't know)

    But, I hope we'll have:

    Ashanti's song from the Muppet Star Hunt
    An Electric Mayhem song
    A Miss Piggy in love with Kermy/imagination scene song
    A sweet sentimental song (from Gonzo?)
    One (two?) roudy big cast songs (liek from MTI, and MCC)
    And a finishing round off the ending song.

    May not happen, but we can hope.
     
  9. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    Muppet Music

    That will be good, considering we have needed some new music for a long time now. I do home it will not be with in the same context as the MGM film. I know the MGM film kind of sets the standard, but we really need some original muppet magic here. :)
     
  10. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Where did you read this interveiw?

    (And how cool to have Incredibles composer doing Muppets! Maybe Disney is beign helpful...)
     
  11. pppapazo

    pppapazo New Member

    I can recognize and appreciate why the absinthe reference bothers you, but I don't mind it much, mostly because most adults (and almost no children) know what absinthe is. Sure, some kids might make the alcohol connection, but between the El Sleazo Cafe and the restaurant where Kermit and Piggy had dinner, the Muppet Movie had plenty of consumption too.

    I know that you feeling like you're being attacked, and I personally didn't mean for my posts to come off that way. Still, I think you underestimate how much of the original Muppet Show was adult humor. Janice talked about nudity in both GMC and TMTM. So did Sam in what is perhaps his most famous moment, the nudity speech from the Muppet Show. He also did a duet with Rowlf of Gilbert & Sullivan's "*** Willow," which isn't inherently dirty (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a ***-willow is a kind of bird) but is definitely played as such in context.

    I've also watched VMX with my younger cousins, and they enjoy it quite a bit, so I think it depends on the child. Everyone knows their children best, though, and I'd never recommend showing them something that you don't approve of or think they're ready for.
     
  12. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    Again I appreciate every thing that you have said and agree with all of your points. I also know of the ***-willow that you are talking about. To me the difference is that there is nothing to indicate that it is dirty or sexual, meaning PePe is not talking about topless dancing before the song starts up. Meaning that it is subtle, yet adult so it goes harmlessly over a kids head. And again I say that depending on the child and how he or she has been raised.

    Sam’s monologue about nudity is very funny, but again I stress the context of that speech. What child does not know that underneath there close they are naked; the nudity is not being exploited. If Sam began talking about nudity, and naked dancers that is a bit different, and again this reference will go over a young Childs head...depending. El-Sleezo and the Dinner Piggy and Kermit have involved alcohol, but look at what is also being portrayed with it.

    El-Sleezo is a great example of the evils of Alcohol, and even Kermit avoids it there, especially when pressured to buy a lady a drink. It is completely different to have Kermit come up to the bar and order a double scotch, (or to have Johnny accuse him of being drunk). Later on when Kermit and Piggy have there dinner together Steve Martin keeps the focus by spitting out the wine because it is so bad. Piggy a total hog gulps it down, feels bubbly, but snaps out of it as soon as her agent calls. They are having a social drink together, we do not see Kermit and Piggy get loaded and then go to bed together, nor are there any indicators that would ever happen. So again I stress the focus and the motivation, in IACMMC it is a lot more in your face, meaning those few jokes that were over the kids head and subtle on The Muppet Show, are now directed right at the kids, in your face. And that level of morality seems to be lost.

    Now I have talked this to death, I have tried to express to you that I can see your point of view and agree with the points you have made. So I hope we can get back to Muppets Wizard of OZ now.
     
  13. Mario

    Mario New Member

    I can't believe that Swedish Chef doesn't have any speaking roles! Why even have him in the movie? I mean all he has to do is mumble once in awhile and it would make the scene, lol. :)
     
  14. Kermit looks at a funny green root beer and you think he's telling kids they should do drugs? I thought it was just a magical soda and I'm 20! Kids are NOT going to make these crazy connections. I'm sorry, but you are WAY too sensative. Seriously, YOU see the connection because you already know about it, I didn't know about it at all and didn't make the connection. It would stand to reason that kids who do not kow about it would also not make the connection.

    Seriously, just stop it.

    As for stuff going over kids heads, what about Fozzie nestly his head next to Rachel Welch's head as she calls him sexy? What about all the muppet guys going gaga over her? The show always had adul;t themes and they are always done in a similar way. Jonny asking if Kermit is drunk is not going to destroy the society as we know it. Kids aren't going to run into the streets with a beer in one hand and a stripper in the other. Seriously, get a grip. This is what patrents are for. If one scene with Kermit talking about (not even drinking!) a funny green ROOT BEERl makes a child abuse drugs and alcohol after years of their parents teaching them otherwise there is a real problem with the parents of that child. I find your argument to be totally void of any real point.
     
  15. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    Wow come to think of it i do rember it being root beer. caues i found it kind of funny they way kermit looked when he said it. Yea i also think your taking this thing way way to far my friend. it will be ok. just relaxe some ok.
     
  16. The Good Doctor

    The Good Doctor New Member

    Shut UP!

    I would suggest that you go back and read the other posts on this subject, before you fire your mouth off like a loose cannon. As a matter of fact I do have kids, and I would like to believe that I am raising them right. The kinds of questions that I was blasted with after watching IAVMMC with them was shocking! I do not expect the younger generation to undestan about Moral Standards because with the Dawn of the '90's they have been fading away along with family values. So of course you would find my argument way off base, not to mention the fact that (if you can read) I have allready agreed with the fact that the original Muppet Show did have adult elements. The difference was the focus, the connection between the characters, and Jim Hensons moral standards.

    As I have allready said I have talked this to death and look forward to discussing Muppets Wizard of OZ.

    Thank you
     
  17. Ok, tell me what morality is. You apprently know what is and is not moral. Tell me the nature of all things moral. Obviously you know the nature of all things moral or else you wouldn't know when something is not moral. And questions from kids are what being a parent is all about. It's your job to answer them. It's also your job to view any and all programs and movies before you let your kids watch them. Don't get mad at the muppets because you let your kids watch a movie you knew nothing about.
     
  18. Phillip

    Phillip Administrator Staff Member

    Guys, please drop it. Sometimes it's best to agree to disagree and move on. This discussion has become personal and is against the forum rules. If this or other topics from you guys get out of hand appropriate action will be taken, including possible suspension of your accounts.

    Read the Forum Rules here...
    http://forum.muppetcentral.com/announcement.php?f=2

    Let's get back to talking about specifics concerning the Muppets' Wizard of Oz.
     
  19. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    Well i would like to clear the air and say im sorry if i ofened anyone. The problem with fan web sites chat rooms and forums is people can tend to get a little cocky. im a really big person who can do this. I/m not calling anyone else in here coky just saying that it can sometimes happen. espcaly with me. But i am also easly to forgive and let live. so i hope we all can still be friends and fans together. :)

    "The Boss would want it that way" :)
     
  20. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Back on the subject of WoO.

    Does anyone know anymore about this interveiw?
     

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