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regular figures...mega sized...what about minis?

Discussion in 'Action Figures' started by beaker, Jul 29, 2002.

  1. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    The thing is though, take off your fan glasses and look at it from a professional toy buyers point of view. From my experience the things they look for are :-

    - The Brand and how popular it is, as of right now
    - Past sales and related merchandise available which would draw sales to the line
    - Quality and safety of the product
    - The price point as with regards to the product itself and how it compares to others on the market.

    The quality factor is just one of many, and i can't see a toy buyer going mad over these and ordering lots of cases just because they are a bit better looking than others, because the price point will likely be much higher. He or She will already have things like Simpsons, He-Man or Osbournes Mini's sitting there on the shelves (which are even articulated) and selling like hotcakes at $10. He or She will probably make their decision as to buy into the line 'en mass' by the conclusion that they look superior to the others in store, but they are more expensive. That leaves the decision more or less down to a question of whether the Muppet brand will be strong enough to move lots of PVC's with competition already in the market, and they'll look at what other Muppet branded stuff is out there, not much aside from the Palisades figures which do fairly well but certain figures do tend to sit on shelves, even when being produced in small quantities. After all this, i could see them maybe testing the waters by getting a crate or something but i couldn't see them buying up cases like hotcakes.

    I think even though these will be higher quality, they should be priced competitively to the other products on the market - maybe $15.99 at most. Hardcore Muppet fans may be gung ho for expensive and really detailed PVC's but it's really not good to go for a much higher price point because the 'average joe' will likely leave them on the shelves, especially if in some cases there is the rest of the Palisades line sitting there too and looking more impressive for less money. I know these will be sold in card shops and things as well, but i would think surely they'd need larger quantity sales coming in from a chain retailer like TRU. I know plenty of people will disagree and say there's plenty of room for the Muppet PVC's as well as other brands, but you've all heard it for yourselves straight from Ken how toy stores hate getting left with unwanted merchandise, and at the end of the day, it's Palisades who have to give them credit back so that they can drop the prices and put them in the bargain bin.
  2. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I said nothing of the public. I just said that I would buy them at that price. No fan glasses here. That topic has been discussed at length with you in particular and I expressed the same notion - that they should be under $20. You took it even further saying they should cost $10 wich is a little bit over board and will not likely happen from what I have heard. $18 - 19 is pretty understandable in the US market, though Muppet products have always cost a little more.

    Have we gotten to the point in these threads that we have to state the same information (that we kind of agreed on) again to the same people? LOL! :eek:
  3. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Sorry, i knew i was going along the same lines but i was also kinda also bringing in the factor that these were now PVC's and not Mini's as well so they had that advantage/disadvatage as people may view it. Just trying to drag up conversation, maybe it wasn't a great idea.

    When i said 'fan glasses' i didn't mean to say that you don't see the other side of the story, i was just kinda saying that we all walk around with fan glasses and look at things from a Muppet fans point of view and would probably think people mad for not snapping these up smartish, but i wondered how it would work out from a non-fan point of view.
  4. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Took off my fan glasses about this stuff long ago. Very long ago. Around the Mildred for President era. I actually support taking liberties with the characters than most other fans. Some of the ideas expressed these days are so conservative and literal. I'm for shaking things up a bit. Nurse Piggy in white? Sure! Link's seat a little higher? Why not! Sam Arrow? Woah, cool! Whatever keeps it interesting to the public.

    Sure a high price tag is a tough sell, but Muppet items seem to move quickly at any price because they are hard to find. We really have to see the workmanship on these babies to be able to decipher how they should be priced, but kids buy CDs that cost 18-20 bucks or more with tax so offering these around that price isn't obscene at all. 25 - 30 dollars would be too extreme in my view. We'll have to wait and see.
  5. Gonzo

    Gonzo Well-Known Member

    Any idea yet how MANY PVCs would be in a set for that price? Six, Eight?

    I'm all for unarticulated PVCs, less detail than the larger figures is okay with me.

  6. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Six is the figure that has been reported, but it could have changed. I wonder if 2 Snowths would count as one or two figures in the scheme of things?
  7. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member


    I am with you there - i can't really see the point where some people say it has to stick as closely to the originals whatever the case may be - it's the Muppets, not Van Gough ! That was a TV show, this is a toy line. There are so many things in TV production where you want to do something really cool but something always scuppers it (lack of funding, technical problems, no time, need better technology) so you settle for whatever your best option is. With the toy line, as long as you don't go overboard and take things too far, you can pretty much explore the possibilties of what could have been done, or what might have been cool to expand on. All this but on a minature scale where you have extra factors like what works best design, and playability wise to consider as well.
  8. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I am actually freaked that people had problems with the lab. It was a wonderful beginning. The only prpblem I had was that the items on the trunk are glued down. The Rabbit and Detector are original pieces and the rest is a good compromise of elements. Sure, it could have had more - and the Kithchen brought things to a different level altogether, but Muppet Labs was a great start! I hope liberties are taken with Koozebane.
  9. MrTheFrog

    MrTheFrog Well-Known Member

    Hey guys,

    I've been reading posts with James and Luke going back and forth on the same issues for weeks now, so I figured I might as well chime in with my own opinion. And yes it's probably gonna repeat a lot of what you guys have said already, but I got bored about ten pages back, so I decided to just write what came to mind and not research past posts. And besides, it'll be different because I'm saying it :)

    As a collector of hundreds upon hundreds of PVC's, and hundreds upon hundreds of Muppet items, here's my opinion on the PVC/Mini issue: They need to be small, they need to be non-articulated, and they need to be cheap. Not cheaply made, mind you, but cheaply priced.

    I understand that Palisades wants to make PVC's like we've never seen before, but why? That's the charm of a PVC, that it's not an action figure. I don't need for my PVC's to be fancy, or textured, or posable. I think that Applause/Bully quality is just great. They're cute, they're charming, they're PVC's. If I want an articulated, textured, perfect representation of a Muppet, I'll buy an action figure. Otherwise all we're getting is a scaled down version of an action figure, which is a scaled down version of a Mega-Muppet, which is a scaled down version of an actual Muppet, which is..well you get the point.

    A $29 price tag is too high, a $24 price tag is too high, $20 is about right. PVC's since the beginning of time have been approximately $3 a piece. With 6 of them, at $3 a piece, that makes $18. Mark it up because they're gonna be produced in less numbers, and $20 is what I come to being the only realistic price for 6 PVC's. People who buy things in card shops don't care about articulation, texture, or any of those other bells and whistles. They're looking for something cheap, yet nice to put along with their main gift. Welcome to the wonderful world of PVC's. They do it all, by doing nothing.

  10. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I understand your ideas and agree with them for the most part, but from what has been reported to me, simple no-frills PVC is a non-issue. Palisades wants to raise the bar even though they certainly don't need to. The regular line could have had less articulation and texture and still be on par with the competition but that's not where they wanted to go. Plain PVCs don't seem likely to happen.

    From what I gather we are to think of these as mini resin statues in plastic. They will not be anything like the regular series or megas. New sculpts, new poses, new outfits, new themes etc. They are something entirely different. I could go for some normal PVCs too, but we just have to wait and see what these things look like and how they will be priced.

    I too have reservations of the success of this extraordinary line if it is too expensive but I since the results of series one I have faith in Palisades and feel they must know what they are doing. As fans we are scared that if it doesn't work the line will be scrapped and we'll be the ones hosed, but they have a lot riding on the success too.
  11. grail

    grail Well-Known Member

    i just wanna know HOW they're going to do some of the Muppets as PVCs. think about the undercut you're looking at on something like Gonzo's nose. it's going to be really tough to do them and do them justice. why not take the extra step while they're at it and just make 'em spectacular?
  12. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I'm wondering too, and without the limitations of joints it will allow them to be more accurate to the source material.
  13. grail

    grail Well-Known Member

    i'm not real sure what you mean by that? i always thought they had done an excellent job of making the articulation hidden. heck, Ken even mentioned that one of the reasons they held Rowlf back was to work on a new way of doing the joint.

    did i miss something?
  14. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    They have done an excellent job. It's not about hiding the articulation but Ken himself expressed that they can be even more true to the puppet in posed PVC because they will not have to take in account moving leg joints, thickness of moving pieces for safety standards etc.
  15. grail

    grail Well-Known Member

  16. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Arties right in some ways, these could be gold plated PVC's for $24.99 or $29.99 and they still aren't gonna sell. Further to that, the store won't even buy them in. At that price the main market would be collectors who are specifically looking for and being into PVC's so the maturer toy shop or comic store would likely be the place these things sell well. I agree $20 at most, but i'd like to see it come down to $15.99 simply because it's a price point that could compete with other lines on the market and sell well everywhere which is what we all want. I'm sure you can 'raise the bar' at that price seeing as advanced things have been done with mini's that sell for even less. I don't think Artie was saying we need standard old 1970's PVC's, but at the same time there is absolutely no need to go over the top and price yourself out of the market just because of a perfection issue. It needs a suitable compromise and it'd be clever to see what they could do for the budget. If they WERE going to be put into card shops at $24.99 then i'd seriously consider packaging and selling them individually in those kind of stores, because most people only ever make impulse purchases there and spend very limited amounts of money.

    I know Palisades know what they are doing, but i think this is gonna be a totally different game to play than making the action figures. Doing high quality PVC's and getting them to sell at a premium price is gonna take a very clever strategy indeed !
  17. incredeeble!

    incredeeble! Well-Known Member

    My concern with PVCs....

    I just wonder at no matter what price, will these be peg warmers at retail stores? The only line that I have seen take any interest in my area are the MOTU PVC. I see the simpsons all over the place and then just odds and ends with clearance tags.

    I personally have a small hesitation to buy PVCs because my number 1 preference when buying figures is detail. If Palisades sacrifices quality for a much lower price, the only reason I'd buy it is because I'd have to buy anything/everything muppets that Palisades makes. If they add more detail to it and the price tag has a 15-25 range, there'd better be: A) Killer detail B) a bunch of characters in one (maybe even a small playset)...

    I think that the MOTU PVCs are kinda a love it or hate it. I personally love the detail in them and the 6-pack carries a 12.99 retail. I think that's a steal for what you get!

    But yeah, what I'm expressing is that I'm not 100% convinced about the idea of muppet pvcs... But I've already been suprised at their quality. Who knows what they might have in store....
  18. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Well-Known Member

    A couple years ago there was a pretty nice boxed set of SST PVCs, didn't those sell pretty well? They sure sold out where I live.
  19. ResidentLilly

    ResidentLilly Well-Known Member

    Hopefully we won't let anybody down with these. We have some interesting things in mind that we can't do with the figures and they could be very cool. It will be one of those things that you'll have to decide when you see them.

    I love those MOTU PVC's...but I don't understand the individual packages and a boxed set of same stuff. Doesn't make sense to me really...but I guess there is a reason for it. And the price is sweet, again, like Simpson's related to volume. MOTU is EVERYWHERE...and we still don't know who will carry the stuff.
  20. incredeeble!

    incredeeble! Well-Known Member

    I remember when I was a kid having some SST PVC-sized figures but they were solid metal! Now that was really cool. I'm just suprised that I was never knocked out throwing them around or anything. good times....

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