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Save the Muppets

Discussion in 'On the Web' started by Daylight, Sep 1, 2005.

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  1. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    This is a side-issue, and a non-issue at that. It's not like this campaign is against good writing. I mean, we're also in favor of cleaner air, good manners and effective dandruff shampoo. We just don't need a campaign to make those points.

  2. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I see, however...

    ...I think a little too much stress is being put on the performers issue in this case. That is all. I agree in princile, but not necesserally in practice. If that makes sence?
  3. GelflingWaldo

    GelflingWaldo New Member

    And the two of them also performed Animal, Dr. Teeth, and Sam Eagle already.
  4. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Dr. Teeth needed some work. The inflections were there, just not the voice. Should have been a bit deeper and more gravelly.
  5. OverUnderAround

    OverUnderAround New Member

    I just want to thank all for contributing to this positive healthy debate. Regardless of what one believes. It's fun to explore all scenarios and angles of such a situation.:)

    My personal dream for this topic, (but not likely to happen) would be that the MHC casts no more than one additional puppeteer for each key role.

    I think we can all agree that would be good. One additional Occasional Muppeteer per main character. I think that would be healthy for the company in the long term.

    Not the five or ten people per character I have seen mentioned here.
    (Actually... That's also something I have never heard any place else but here.)

    I've never been told that the Occasional Muppeteer would work at a theme park either.

    Hmm. I do believe I heard from the sources at one time that it might be three puppeteers hired. I don't know if they meant in total or per character.

    It might be something like this:
    Photo shoots (non-speaking)- that might go to novice puppeteers. (And that's not a threat to anyone's job.)
    Cruise ship- that might go to better quality puppeteers.
    TV appearances- Puppeteers with proven TV experience and/or whom have worked with the Henson's in the past.
  6. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    No, we really can't. One Muppet, One Voice!

    Muppets Holding Company's Martin G Baker told Jim Hill on September 13: "This new group of performers ... will only get the secondary jobs. When Kermit needs to appear at the opening of a mall or in a new show at the theme parks." (http://www.jimhillmedia.com/article.php?id=1643) (emphasis mine)

  7. theprawncracker

    theprawncracker Well-Known Member

    I don't think OverUnderAround was saying that, he never accused the Muppeteers of being lazy; first off; and secondly, he was saying that if Goelz and Whitmire had lost their jobs, they would have done something. He was saying that they haven't lost their jobs, just that they have been replaced in smaller 10 min. performances, also, how do we know that Yerrid and Massey have been hired as permanent performers of these characters?

    And I must agree with Beau, I'm not against the petition, I'm just not for it.
  8. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    I know exactly what he was saying. And silence can be interpreted any way you want. "The Muppeteers haven't spoken about this" doesn't, logically, point to any particular conclusion. It could mean they're for it, they're against it, they're on vacation, they've all just turned to mime, or even, that's just not their style. They've never publicly complained about anything before, not even Telling Stories with Tomie dePaola. Why should their silence now be interpreted as significant?

    But hey, if you're going to make assumptions based on silence, try this: If they were all for this policy, don't you think they'd be free to say so? Don't you think MHC would want to put them front and center and say, look, the Muppeteers support this?

    But the real point is, even if I heard that Steve, Eric, Dave, Bill, Brian and even Jerry and Frank were in favor of multiple Muppets, I would still be against the idea. It's a bad idea. It was a bad idea when Jim was alive, it was a bad idea when Jim's kids were in charge, it's a bad idea under Disney, and it'll still be a bad idea in 10 or 20 years' time. Two Statlers, three Waldorfs, eight Kermits, five and a half Chefs -- any combination of multiple Muppets is a bad idea. I don't care who inside MHC is for or against it, I just want it stopped. I've been absolutely 100% clear on this all along: We're not trying to save anybody's jobs, we're trying to save the Muppets.

    We don't care! The whole point is that recasting for convenience inevitably hurts the characters. Every change, every swap, every new voice and new set of mannerisms takes the Muppets further away from who they are, and major decisions like that just shouldn't be taken lightly.

  9. OverUnderAround

    OverUnderAround New Member

    Well thank you for pointing that out Kynan, Marty Baker didn't mention that to me. Malls or themes parks were never mentioned in my presence.
  10. MGov

    MGov New Member


    Abhorrent is starving children.
    Abhorrent is genocide.
    Abhorrent is religious persecution.
    Abhorrent is the homeless dying on the street.

    Sorry I can't get behind your campaign. I guess I just have a different perspective of the goings-ons at a huge entertainment conglomerate than you.

    Good luck though.
  11. OverUnderAround

    OverUnderAround New Member

    Yea, that's true alright. But times are changing and we can't go back to what use to be unfortunatley. Things evolve and change and not always for the better Kynan.

    But I have hope! I have some very pleasant beliefs that this making a moutain out of a molehill situation will soon blend itself together into a better Muppet company for all fans. Everyone will be happy...it just takes time.

    So everyone just sit back and take a deep breath and don't let this situation stress any of you out.

    Good times are coming...:)

  12. theprawncracker

    theprawncracker Well-Known Member

    *stands up and applauds* I've been saying that since day two...;) :p
  13. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

    Hey MGov I'll 2nd ya on that man! :cool:
  14. a_Mickey_Muppet

    a_Mickey_Muppet Well-Known Member

    Yeah I was (also) at the NYC auditions and I DON'T recall hearing Mr. Baker saying that! and just a note for Barker, just about every thing Jim Hill says is KINDA B.S :o
  15. Kynan Barker

    Kynan Barker New Member

    Mickey Muppet, is there any particular reason why you keep referring to me by my surname?

  16. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Hey, Kynan, just a thought but have you considered getting an interview from Martin Baker yourself? You know he's been with the Muppets for umpteen years to begin with. So far there have been biased articles on one side of the issue by writers, non-biased articles as well. I'd like to see what would come from your side of the issue in an interview.
  17. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Well, to some extent agreed. I mean, to me, the ideal would be one muppet, one performer. But we don't live in an ideal world, so let's take the next best thing:


    They are still such whether they are performed by such-and-such, or so-and-so.

    I'm not talking in big terms here, yes, if they were handed off to Tom, Dick, and Harry that would not be good. But we are talking about sensible decisions made by people with a little more knowledge of the Muppets than we fans have, quite frankly, and I think that bringing in new occasional perforers is a better thing than letting them die.

    A few months ago we thought the muppets were done, they were silenced, and hardly anyone saw them any more. Now they are all over TV, the internet, everywhere. And they are still in charcter (by writers...well...almost in charcter, but that's not the perfomarers fault), they are still the Muppets. Thats what counts.

    In my opinion...

  18. MWoO

    MWoO Active Member

    True. I mean, the idea of Sam being handed off to some new guy didn't sit well, but the character seemed dead on to me. The idea of Steve and Dave not doing the movies.com thing is not good, but the characters seem to be beter because of it. It's odd.
  19. GelflingWaldo

    GelflingWaldo New Member

    For over 5o years it has be an "ideal world" (at least in these terms). Why can't that continue?

    I think that brining in new occasion performers will make them die.

    I'll take quality over quantity any day. I'd rather only see quality Muppets in new stuff once evey two years, than see fake Muppets every-other day.
  20. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    On the basis of what inside information are you sayin that, cos as far as i'm concerned Disney have always been very hit and miss with handling properties like this .. just because we are possibly getting a TV series and a TV special, plus a bit of merchandise doesn't automatically make Disney a Shangri La for Muppet fans. In a couple of years, when this honeymoon periods over, the scenario might look very different. If the TV shows don't do well then they could decide it isn't worth contracting the core Muppeteers, and if they get to a point where they can make just as much money distributing the TV/Film library they might decide its not worth it financially to keep the puppets out there and performing. They might even rest the Muppets for a few years if things don't work out and they have something else to move onto that has better prospects. If good times are coming, bad times might not be far ahead.

    Disney are always going to target the nostalgia audience as part of anything they do with the Muppets and as the hardcore fans i guess we are seen as part of that. It's partly because they are a huge entertainment company that it's important we have campaign groups like this to represent our views. If the Disney marketing people look to Muppet Central and see the fans who have stuck with the Muppets the longest going "Gee, Disney must know whats best for the Muppets because they keep telling us they have these great projects in the works and besides, this Disney made Kermit underwear i have on is really comfy and snug" then they'll think we'll just accept anything. Sure we'll always have a few brainwashed Disney fanatics on the forum who have the mouse ears Kermit avatars and truly believe that if Disney's next move was "Kermit Meets Dumbo" it would be a classic in the making, and there'll always be a few Henson hardcores that hate anything Disney does but if there are things like this petition/campaign that shows our views as a group then they might just stop and listen.
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