Should the Muppets retire?

[Vic Romano]

EEE-YIKES! Holy crap; you guys, put down the fire arms!
*Gets atop a lone busted soap box*
First off, I got serious issues with these personal insults; especially against some of my best friends here on MC. MWoO; I got a problem with you, it started in the MWoO review thread. I asked simply that you respect other's opinions, you manipulated that into me being discriminatinf against those of lesser post counts (which it was not). Beau saw trouble and asked us all to take a step back and take a look at what we were doing. I hafta' admit; I didn't want to, but respecting Beau as I do, I knew he was right, and I PUBLICLY apologized to you, an apology which you never acknowledged, and now I come back here and see you dumpin' on my pals Luke and BEAR, and that get's me hot. Back off and play nice, we're all very happy to have such a knowledgable user here, but your word isn't gospel, so sometimes, just agree to disagree.

To all of you who disagree with Luke; GOOD! I agree with the guy mostly (and not just because he's my bud), but these different views are so freakin' healthy. Most of you have disagreed in such a healthy way; and in all honesty, are making spectacular points on why the Muppets shouldn't retire. Healthy opposition is just what this forum needs to keep it exciting and fun! Yes, it's hard not to get a little steamed when someone disagrees, but you're doin' so well at pushing your opinions in a good way, that it helps guys like Luke and I continue to be open.

Me? I'm the kind of fan (yes, there is NOT just one kind of fan) that isn't going to accept whatever comes across the table just because Kermit's face is smeared on it. So I think the Muppets should have retired when Jim passed... to a degree. I love 'em, I need 'em, but I want 'em taken seriously and not just slapped on every corporate bumper sticker that flashes the frog some green. As far as guests are concerned, I really don't care who the Muppets bring on, as long as it doesn't affect their integrity. If Snoop Dog wants in, let 'im; but don't make Kermit get on some talk show and advocate Snoop's pornography line. Are the Muppets made soley for kids? NO! But if you think they're soley for adults, you got some news comin' to you! Think about it, how many of you were/are adults when they first became interested in the Muppets? I'm so sick of people making the Muppets out to be for adults only, they're for everyone; and there is a happy medium for both. Television is not what it used to be, and it's not supposed to be either; but that doesn't mean that there needs to be a white flag thrown up to d*** and fart jokes, sexual inuendos and the reality show craze. There are already outlets for that, the Muppets are unique enough that they can pass all that. However, if they're gonna' just continue trying to be like everyone else, then yes; I think they should retire.

*falls off soap box and hopes no one noticed that part*

 

[TogetherAgain]

*pretending not to notice the falling off the soap box part*

Well said, Vic. And as for what you said about different views being healthy- It's like my uncle said one time: If we all agree on everything, we'll just be sitting around like a bunch of bobble heads.

 

[dpurves]

Bravo! There really isn't much point in asking people's opinions if you're going to blow up the second they disagree with you. And that's all these are: opinions. You believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same. There's never any reason to start throwing insults.

 

[Drtooth]

Finally, I agree with your assessment of Disney. I've always loved the Muppets. I always loved Looney Tunes. The Disney characters just never did it for me. It's like they were always trying to be too nice, while the Muppets and Looney Tunes characters seemed more interested in being themselves, both for good and for bad.

Well... not just that... I mean a lot of their cartoons were banal and pointless. I am of course referring to the millions of cartoons in which Pluto gets his head or tail stuck in a sweater, hermit crab shell, or anything like that. Remeber, after a while, they even stopped making Mickey cartoons because the character is pretty much just bland, at least compaired to Goofy and Donald (of whom I both enjoy). I mean, while a lot of Looney Tunes shorts are repetitive, they are still much funnier and better written. Plus, we had a lot of clever stuff like "What's Opera, Doc?" my personal favorite non-Daffy cartoon (that would be the Original Duck Dodgers).

But getting back to the subject, I feel the problem lies within the anger of a lot of fans about the current projects. Personally, saying the Muppets should retire because of OZ is like saying an actor like Robert DiNero should have retired because of crappy films like Showtime and Hide and Seek. I mean, I still think the puppetry and puppet acting is still the top of the feild (just look at the hack Sesame Street ripoffs you see on cable channels). But, like DiNero, I feel that the Muppets, Henson, or whomever is in charge of them should look into productions with a little more care.

I mean, I agree that the entire media has slipped down a spiral path to oblivion (and taking the Muppets, along with other things with it). Personally, I see 2 problems in the media. On the one side, there's gratuitous sex and smut on reality TV shows and such, and on the other side is ultrasafe and sound family sitcoms featuring untalented, unknown comedians (Pretty Much ABC's entire line up). Now, I feel the prudish censors are hovering over the wrong things, while Jerry Springer is still on TV. I also feel that the pop culture refference boom is related to the unfunny, overhyped Will and Grae show. Personally, I think the only good daring, edgy programmings are Nicktoons like Spongebob and Fairly Oddparents, Adult Swim programming like Space Ghost, and the new TMNT show on 4Kids.... all cartoons, mind you. Shows either take things too far, or stay away from any controversy, making them bland, unrealistic, and forgettable. In both cases, these shows are just plain awful, and shockingly reminicent of RBTV from the Bullwinkle movie (for the millions of you who haven't seen it, it hypnotizes the masses, making them compliant).

At one point, I made a comment I regret saying about the Muppets not selling out. Well.... the Henson kids sold out to Dizzy, and Dizzy sells out like razy (even when Uncle Walt was in charge. The Wonderful world of color was made to hawk color TV's remember?) In recent years, Dizzy sold out to the tweenage girl and 7-10 year old boy market. Which is why you see Hillary Duff programming 24/7 on the Disney channel, and you see Digimon and Power Rangers on Toon Disney (instead of Ducktales, a really great project millions of fans love). I think that's the reason OZ was about a pop singer who wanted to be a pop star, which really pulled the project down, IMO.

And finally, my one peeve about discussing the good old days? WHen people can't stop blaiming new characters for how projects are bad. This is exactly like when posters say "Elmo is a terrible character that ruined Sesame Street." The new characters were made to fill the void left by characters they haven't been able to recast. Personally, I think Pepe, Johnny, Sal and Bobo saved MFS for me. and, I have to give them credit for not continuing Andy, Randy, and all the new Pigs from MT. It goes to show at least there's some care at least where characters are due.

 

[BEAR]

I definitely have to agree with you there... Disney just seems to be a little too careful that when it comes to POTC, they suck the fun out of it to protect little kids' ears.

No, you misunderstood me. I was defending Disney. They are wonderful in providing family entertainment. It is the stupid people of the public that get way to sensitive with things that makes them feel like they always need to watch their backs. They have been providing wonderful family fun for about 70 years and will continue to do so.

 

[Frogster]

My apologies, Bear. I still see where you're coming from.

And hey, Vic,
Thanks, pal.

 

[BEAR]

I also think Disney is doing their best to keep the Muppets alive and running. They are doing this for us, not themselves. Sure, they get the money, but they know that we are here and that we want to see the Muppets on top.

They have a lot of new projects lined up for the Muppets including theatrical feature films, their own series, and guest spots on other shows. This is all according to the interview with Eric Jacobson.

 

[pppapazo]

I also think Disney is doing their best to keep the Muppets alive and running. They are doing this for us, not themselves. Sure, they get the money, but they know that we are here and that we want to see the Muppets on top.

Well, that's a little naive. Disney is, of course, doing it for the money and only the money. If Disney didn't think the Muppets could be profitable, they wouldn't have bought them. And the moment they think the Muppets aren't profitable anymore, Disney will have no problem stopping new projects.

 

[Vic Romano]

I'm not saying you, BEAR or Eric is wrong, but I can't imagine Disney would do anything for "us" per say. I believe they see the Muppets vast intentions, but my personal feelings is that they see dollar signs instead of Dogs, frogs, chickens and pigs. I believe they also know that along with newbies to reel in as fans, they're aware of us too and they know that for the most part, we'll bite. That's not to say their intentions are evil either. I'd be interested to read that article though, is it here on MC?

 

[BEAR]

Well, that's a little naive. Disney is, of course, doing it for the money and only the money. If Disney didn't think the Muppets could be profitable, they wouldn't have bought them. And the moment they think the Muppets aren't profitable anymore, Disney will have no problem stopping new projects.

Don't call me naive. I am aware that money is a factor. The fact is, the Muppets have a popularity and the general public loves them. They would not buy something that the public didn't go for. They are profitable enough that we would all invest in them, but it is also unfair to say that all Disney thinks about is money and themselves.