Should the Muppets retire?

[TogetherAgain]

MWoO? Like Beau said, throwing insults is kinda childish. Just because you don't agree with someone's OPINION- may I remind everyone we're just discussing OPINIONS- doesn't mean they're insane or a bigot.

dpurves, of course the muppets can do better than Pizza Hut ads with Jessica Simpson. But you said the muppets need to "find themselves." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of "finding themselves" is going back to their roots. And the muppets got started doing advertisements. I know Wilkins and Wontkins aren't necessarily the same as Kermit, Miss Piggy, and Gonzo, but I just thought I'd point it out.

And Drtooth, You've got a lot of good points, as usual. Particularly that first comment- we might not have all the original performers anymore, that's just a part of life, but at least the people we do have know what they're doing.

The Muppets aren't perfect, they never have been, they never will be, and you know what? We love them anyway. Heck that might even be why we love them. ...ok so maybe not. But my point is, if all we do is criticize, what kind of fans are we? And if all we do is praise, how blind are we? Beauregard, you said that "a good fan" should be somewhere in between. Let's find that somewhere in between, shall we? I think it might be called "constructive criticism".

 

[dpurves]

The Muppets aren't perfect, they never have been, they never will be, and you know what? We love them anyway. Heck that might even be why we love them. ...ok so maybe not. But my point is, if all we do is criticize, what kind of fans are we? And if all we do is praise, how blind are we? Beauregard, you said that "a good fan" should be somewhere in between. Let's find that somewhere in between, shall we? I think it might be called "constructive criticism".

Actually, the Muppets not being perfect is a huge part of their appeal for me. I always liked it that they kind of stumbled around, messed up, and often lost hope before finally reaching their happy ending. Isn't that kind of what made them...human?

Is it silly to say that the world is a better place for having the Muppets? Some people would probably say so. All I know is that for all their ups and downs, and for as much as I get frustrated at feeling that their quality isn't always up to expectations, they've given me endless hours of enjoyment. I would never want them to go away.

Oh, and I don't remember the older commercials they did. I wish I could.

 

[Cantus Rock]

I think that Frogster and I differ a bit on our preceived implications of the Scooter-cage thing. Homosexuality wasn't my gripe; it was the lack of tact. Just wanted to point that out.

And dpruves, good post. It doesn't (or rather, shouldn't) take being 34 to agree with your analysis. Interesting stuff.

Tooth - also interesting points. I think you sort of draw on a lot of different viewpoints to create your own view, which is good. Interesting points on productions vs. performance. I see it as a mixture of the two personally in regards to my own statements.

 

[Beauregard]

Snoop Dog was a weird choice, but Tarantino? HE MAKES MOVIES!!! That makes him an awful person? Is he even ANYONE"S role model? Seriously, he had a like am inute cameo for God's sake. THAT is a reason to retire the muppets? You're insane.

Mwoo, look, I'm not trying to sound all houty-touty, but it is obvious what your opinion is, and your opinion seems to be that only your opinion counts. And if anyone dissagrees you start shouting.

Ok, now I think you are just a bigot. Closing your eyes and wearing black shorts means you are gay now? And since you brought it up as a negative i assume you think being ga is a negative too. Oh I bet Jim would love you and your ideals. Ever hear of Richard Hunt? Just wondering...

Whatever the meaning of this thread is, let's not, not, not drag in personal insults at the performers. And whatever you might say, that what you wrote there was intentionally inflamatory and a horrid gab at Richard Hunt and his death. How dare you!

If you want to stop watching new productions that's your issue. As long as you don't go protesting them and forcing others not to watch, i don't really care.

Aparently you do care, because you are the one shouting here. And forcing otehrs to share your opinions. Can't we discuss things rationally here? You, Mwoo, are certainly making our side of teh argument look weak, and violent, and not really doign much here to help the argument that the Muppets are not ready to be retired. Jim might have his thoughts and opinions on things, but I can tell you this one thing for certain, he never shouted about them.

The Muppets aren't perfect, they never have been, they never will be, and you know what? We love them anyway. Heck that might even be why we love them. ...ok so maybe not. But my point is, if all we do is criticize, what kind of fans are we?

Perhaps the truest words stated in this thread, from my opinion. Thansk Lisa!!!

Now, let's take a step back from our own emotions and high rankled/ruffled fur and say, "Can we find a middle ground? And if we can't,. can we shake on it, and leave the thread peacefully?"

 

[MWoO]

"Whatever the meaning of this thread is, let's not, not, not drag in personal insults at the performers. And whatever you might say, that what you wrote there was intentionally inflamatory and a horrid gab at Richard Hunt and his death. How dare you!"

What performer did I insult? Richard Hunt was gay. It's not an insult at all. If I say that Jim Henson was straight am I insulting him? And I did not insult Frogster either. If someone is a bigot it is not an insult to call them such. If you automatically equate cage dancing with being gay you are a person who stereotypes. If you then say that being gay is negative you are a bigot. Honestly, what do you take issue with? Me for call him a bigot or him for being a bigot?

 

[Beauregard]

"Whatever the meaning of this thread is, let's not, not, not drag in personal insults at the performers. And whatever you might say, that what you wrote there was intentionally inflamatory and a horrid gab at Richard Hunt and his death. How dare you!"

What performer did I insult? Richard Hunt was gay. It's not an insult at all. If I say that Jim Henson was straight am I insulting him? And I did not insult Frogster either. If someone is a bigot it is not an insult to call them such. If you automatically equate cage dancing with being gay you are a person who stereotypes. If you then say that being gay is negative you are a bigot. Honestly, what do you take issue with? Me for call him a bigot or him for being a bigot?

Er excuse me, this thread is not about whether, or whether not, Richard Hunt was gay. If you want to pick that fight, starts a new thread and good luck to you. however, since you bring it up...

What performer did you insult? You insulted the memory of Richard Hunt. The fact he was gay has never been proved, or agreed with, but always denied. But that is not the point, the very way your paragraph was set out was a direct and pointed kind of insult, either to Richard, or to Frogster, or to...the fact is, it wasn't needed. And it was based on fact. And, wat is more, was just an inflamitory jab! What was the need for it? None.

But for the record, it is not a generally accepted fact that RH was gay. That is a rumour, and, even if it is true, it is only suported by those who chose to cause trouble.

Now if you don't mind, can we get back to the relevent topic?

 

[Skeeter Muppet]

I think that Frogster and I differ a bit on our preceived implications of the Scooter-cage thing. Homosexuality wasn't my gripe; it was the lack of tact. Just wanted to point that out.

Even though I liked VMC, I have to agree that that part was sort of, well, out there. Pulled from certain places of the anatomy, if you catch my drift. I can see Scooter as something akin to Ms. Bitterman's personal assistant or something; maybe she even bought his uncle out in a hostile takeover.

I think we should stay above the judgeing of fan-dom. Throwing insults is kinda..childish?

He said take his view about "true fans" however we wanted...that's the way I took it. I ain't apologizing for it, either.

-Kim

 

[Beauregard]

Wasn't asking you do, Kim. And, yeah, he did I guess. But...

The most Jim ever did was tell Richard in a quiet voice, "Don't ever do that again."

 

[MWoO]

I think you are being overly sensative. Infact there is a law stating what I said is not an insult. I believe it is no longer slander to say anyone is gay. There for, by law, it is in no way an insult nor was it meant to be. But whatever, you think of it as an insult if you want. I'm sure more than a few people here would disagree with you.

You can call what I said about Frogster a jab if you wish, but I don't like it when bigotted ideas are spread. I didn't like it when people complained about Dorothy and her family being black, and I don't like it when someone says the muppets should retire because in their opinion Scooter was acting gay. There is no room for any bigotted crap like that. When I read ignorant stuff like that, it angers me. And HE brought it up, not me.

 

[MWoO]

Wasn't asking you do, Kim. And, yeah, he did I guess. But...

The most Jim ever did was tell Richard in a quiet voice, "Don't ever do that again."

Actually that was Jerry he said that too.

Did Jim become Jesus or something? Are wesuppose to follow his example now and never show anger?