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Should the Muppets retire?

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Frogster, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. Frogster

    Frogster Well-Known Member

    Hey, maybe we'll end up crossing paths, if we're lucky. Hope you don't mind... I read your profile, as well. I'm glad we both have a fondness for "The Frog."
  2. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    That would be cool. Hey, Kermit is an American hero, and our world would not be the same without.
  3. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I'm back, and ready to stick my oar in again (mwahahaha.)

    I started a new thread about this, but if people miss it, I'd like to put it here too.


    Whoah! I watched TMS Season 1 for the first time this afternoon, and I was very, very surprised after what I have heard about it compared to what I saw. Why such a fuus about modern Muppets sexual references? These old shows are chock'a'block with them.

    Why are we makign such a fuss about Pepe touching Gonzo nipples, when Miss Piggy through her...um..things in Kermit's face in Temptation, rather obviously.

    And why do we care about Pepe chasing ladies when Ruth Buzzi threw herself with such abandon at Sweetums? Laying on the table, rubbing him, scratching at his clothes...

    Are we forgetting things/not putting things in proportion? We think of TMS as the holy grail of Mupeptness, but that was certainly not as pure as we'd like to think.

    Bea:zany:{Just a thought}regard
  4. unclematt

    unclematt Well-Known Member

    I have said from the beginning that it is not a kids show. None of us should be embarresed that we are Muppet's fans.
  5. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I agree. But,my point is, people have been wanting the Mupepts to be moral and cean, but, when were they ever? They wern't! And I have only just discovered that fact.
  6. unclematt

    unclematt Well-Known Member

    I was agreeing Beau. I have never wanted the Muppets to clean up thier act. Obviously I dont want them to take it too far but they have never done that and the people that think they have need to go back and see what the Muppets were truly all about.
  7. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    The Muppets were always edgy, but never innappropriate or filthy. They never used bad language and they never showed anything sexual or explicit. They are fine. When they start talking about private body parts, then we can complain.
  8. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Ok....so, you'd rather have women in films shoving their 'persoanlities' into men's faces, then have a man with no top on?
  9. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

  10. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Well, the majority of the complaints right now are about Pepe touching Gonzo's nippels? Right?

    Well, men regularly touch each other nipples. How is this worse than Miss Piggy's behaviour in Temptation?
  11. mikebennidict

    mikebennidict Well-Known Member

    i think we're gettinyg a little to vulgar here.
  12. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    No, Mike. That's not what I'm trying to do here.

    And, BEar, I wasn;t attacking you, so don't think it.

    What I'm trying (and I think unsuccessfully) to do is point out, that the Mupepts are hardly worse now than they were then. And if Jim was here he would almost certainly be doing the same jokes, etc (albeit more humerously), that they are doing now anyway. Why are we getting so het up about the Gonzos-nipple thing, when there were (IMHO) worse things in TMS 1.
  13. unclematt

    unclematt Well-Known Member

    I dont think there was anything wrong with Gonzo's "nipple" being touched. In fact it brought me back to a day when the Muppets were edgier and willing to try to appeal to someone besides children. I like it!!!
  14. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    Well...considering they weren't really even nipples, they were metal knobs on a robot, i would say it isn't bad at all.
  15. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Ah...I see. In that case, sir, I was not addressing my remarks at you. Sorry about the confusion.

    Cantus, I wish to discuss the Muppet Show Season One vs Modern Mupepts, where are you, good sir?
  16. Cantus Rock

    Cantus Rock Well-Known Member

    Here I be, here I be. :D

    Well, to be perfectly honest, the Gonzo nipple incident is unbeknownst to me. I assume it was in MWoO, and I boycotted that production. I'll probably buy the DVD though for collection's sake. However, I'll assume that I'm understanding the situation: at some point, Pepe touched (rubbed?) Gonzo's nipple area, and people became up in arms over it. Yes?

    If this is the case, I think that if I were to be upset by this scene, it would be for this reason: the cumulative. When TMS portrayed sexual overtones, I feel that due to the geniune nature of the overall production, it was taken in stride. I think a great way to sum it up would be similar to the way a sexual overtone was taken in a Marx Brothers' production; its all so wacky and wonderful that sex is not meant to be sexy, it was meant to be funny, just like any other gag. This falls in line with the fact that we know nothing perverse was portrayed in the productions in any other facit (which is another reason why the "Alice Cooper was a bad influence and still made TMS" argument holds no water with me).

    Now again, I haven't seen the scene in question and can't pretend to know the elements of the situation as of right now. However, I think that if I do understand correctly, the uproar (if there is any actual uproar) would be due to the cumulative shift in Muppet productions. With the move towards more "with it" humor, an overhaul of standards in regards to the writing has taken place. And, as we all well know, sex is now more than ever becoming a commonplace in our mainstream entertainment.

    What I mean is this: if you move from the classic style and completely revamp the characters' dialogues to come off as "hip," sexually oriented material is no longer zany and part of the fun as it was in the classic format. It takes on the current dynamics, which are to be provocative and cause some kind of specific reaction. This may not have been the intention of the writers and cast, but when shift one element, shift 'em all, especially when that change it towards being trendy.

    I really do have to see the scene in question though; nipple-rubbing would probably have crossed the line with Jim even in the classic era if it was portrayed in the way I think it was. I do hope Gonzo was not bare-chested.. :(
  17. Cantus Rock

    Cantus Rock Well-Known Member


    Important topic.

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