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The Muppets are getting worse

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Kaiser Gonzo, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Did you see the Oz movie on DVD yet? It's much better there. The TV version was chopped all to heck and back and that ruined it.

    I don't think The Muppets are going downhill at all! I think they're doing a good job. Thing is, I see all the complaints and nobody's making decent, constructive ideas what to do to fix it.
  2. MeepBorkMeep

    MeepBorkMeep Well-Known Member

    Okay. Let's try and be constructive...Well, for one they could....maybe make another movie? Like, not a sequel or a remake...but something original like the first three?
  3. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    You know they'll only do that if they feel there's enough support. Luckily Oz didn't give the Muppets rave reviews, but they did win the time-slot so that's why Diz decided to go on with the new series.

    I would like a new movie with new songs. I hope they get Paul Williams back in again to work on a movie. Maybe hire Frank Oz to direct it.
  4. ReneeLouvier

    ReneeLouvier Well-Known Member

    I stand behind that comment. I believe that is true.

    They haven't gone to pot just yet, but...a lot of the heart that was remaining, was lost when he died.
  5. Kaiser Gonzo

    Kaiser Gonzo Well-Known Member

    We don't want more movies. The Muppets glory days were 1976-1981, the muppet show years, its no good bringing out crappy films for the sake of it, very rcently the movies have been churned out. they are producing nothing but rubbish at the moment, and that is coz Jim, Richard, Jerry and frank are not performing anymore due to death and retirment, so why try and get people that sound nothing like the characters to take up the role of these wonderful muppeteers, CRAZY!!!
  6. TheJimHensonHour

    TheJimHensonHour Well-Known Member

    perfect movie right there if they do that I will hold my hand on a bible and swear to God that that's the honest truth!:attitude:
  7. Marky

    Marky Well-Known Member

    Kid, you weren't even alive when the Berlin Wall came down! This heavy stance you pose could only possibly be based purely on retro-active rhetoric. Much of the humor in today's Muppet stuff involves allusions and references - things that fly above the heads of those born after the seventies. Us Gen-X'ers love it. And if you can't get over the fact that the core original cast is no longer involved, may I suggest you lighten up? You're way too young to be jaded!:grouchy:
  8. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member


    Yes, there are other Hensons, but so far they ALL have been conspicuously absent when anyone says, "Okay, who's gonna take the helm of the Classic Muppets?"

    Jane is functioning as the head of the Henson Legacy. She really didn't have much to do with the classic Muppets after she and Jim seperated. if she was willing to take on the role of leader, she would have done so long ago.

    Brian is heading the Jim Henson Company. He pretty much outright said that he didn't want to be the steward of his father's work. He wants to be in control of the company and push it in his own direction. Nothing wrong with that, it has to happen, but it's not leading the Muppets.

    John Henson? Is this the same John Henson so conspicuous by his complete lack of notoriety? How many even know who he is? and be sure you don't confuse the relatively unknown John Henson (son of Jim and Jane) with the relatively unknown John Henson (comedian).

    Heather Henson? The puppetry performance artist? Her attitude is the same as Brian's. She doesn't want to be in command of the Muppets... she's got a successful career of her own brewing. No stewardship for her.

    Quite literally, the Henson line has severed itself from the Muppets.

    The rest of the stuff you mention,

    Muppets from Space is the reason why Jerry Juhl (RIP) quit. The only guy who really had a handle on what Muppet comedy was about left the project.

    Muppet Treasure Island is possibly the best of the recent offerings since it held true to Muppet comedy tradition. But you can chalk that up to Jerry's involvement.

    The release of Muppets and Fraggles really just gives us what we've been asking for for MANY years. No brainer.

    In order for the Muppets to get back in the swing, they NEED a leader. Can you imagine the disaster backstage at The Muppet Show if you suddenly just plucked Kermit out of the mix? Now imagine if you supplanted Kermit with J.P. Gross, Scooter's uncle.

    That's what we have right now with MHC.

    I'm not poo-pooing your likes. You have every right to like what you like. I'm overjoyed that TMS and FR are on DVD. Absolutely! Heck, I like Muppet Treasure Island too. But that was years ago. Yes... almost TEN years now.

    And I still maintain that there is absolutley NOTHING wrong with asking for MORE and BETTER from the Muppets. But IMHO it's going to take a benevolent dictator (in the form of someone who can exibit the proper heart and lead with conviction and charisma) to put the Muppets back in their best Bristol fashion.

  9. Marky

    Marky Well-Known Member

    Well that someone should be a performer/artist themselves, not a suit. You need time in the trenches to grasp a true love for your vision.
  10. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Not a whit of dis-agreement on THAT point!

    As long as it's not a certain puppeteer whose name begins with Kevin.

    (No offense, big K, but I personally don't think you're the man for the job. Just MHO.)

  11. Marky

    Marky Well-Known Member

    I double that!

  12. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Okay..then lets start a thread titled "Who should lead the Muppets?" that'd be some good discourse.

  13. muppetsforlife

    muppetsforlife Well-Known Member

    It sure gets depressing reading all these pessimistic posts about the muppets from people that are fans. Oh well can't change the world, I guess. But lets bare a couple of things in mind here. When Jim Henson's muppets first started it was a fight just to get them exposure. A lot of people didn't accept puppets as something that was geared for the entire family. Eventually the muppet show won people over and the grew to be loved. It seems like history is repeating itself as people are saying that they are done and there is no room for them in the world anymore. But thats ok, I still believe in them. And I still love them. Secondly Jim Henson had already stated that even when he was gone, the muppets would still be around as long as there were people that still loved them and still wanted to see them. I am one of those people. I know there has to be others out there? So even if nobody else cares to see new muppet stuff, I still do. Bring on more movies, more video games, more re-releases of old stuff. I will watch them all. I love the muppets. I always have and always will. I will be anxiously awaiting every new thing that they bring out.

    "And Kermit, We still believe in the show." -Scooter from Muppets Take Manhatten.
  14. Marky

    Marky Well-Known Member

    Think this site's bad? Try any Star Wars fan site! Seriously!!!
  15. spcglider

    spcglider Well-Known Member

    Not to impugn your comprehension ability, but I think you've missed the point.

    Nobody here is saying that the world no longer wants the Muppets. That's ludicrous. And nobody here is saying that they should stop doing stuff because they suck. That's not it either.

    What everybody here is saying is that the people in charge of the Muppets aren't doing a good job. That's a completely different thing.

    My point, personally, is that I am unwilling to accept the occasional commercial spot as "good Muppet material". And that's all they seem to have slated for the Muppets. I don't enjoy the fact that the bean-counters at MHC are reducing the Muppets to glorified pitch-men when they could be doing so much more.

    If the fan community dosn't make it's desires heard, doesn't let the people in-charge know that they expect MORE from such a tremendous wellspring of entertainment, all we will continue to get is more lame commercials starring our favorite Muppets. And then the world really WILL start thinking the Muppets are done for.

    If we all sit around on this board and applaud every lame thing those suits cause Kermit and the gang to do and greedily consume the resulting pablum with deepest thanks to the Mouse House, how do you expect to ever see anything really worth watching? I, for one, am not so easily assuaged.

    The entertainment industry operates on the pidgeon-hole philosophy. The Muppets are being pidgeon-holed as comedic pitch-men for commercials... NOT as prime-time family entertainment. That's a problem. If they get stuffed too far into that pidgeon-hole, they won't be able to get out.

    Its not a problem with the Muppets themselves, its a problem with how they're being handled. Its also not any sort of problem that can't be FIXED.

    And I'm sorry, but it's gonna take a heaping helping of pessimism to get the ball rolling on the solution.

    I love the Muppets too. But I'm going to be clear-headed about whether or not what they're doing is worthy of their property. Tough love is hard for some. But they deserve our honesty, don't they?

  16. Marky

    Marky Well-Known Member

    I see your point, Gordon. I mean, I do find the commercials cute & see nothing wrong with them hawkin' stuff on TV. But I also don't think Disney would have bought the Muppets just to let this happen. I think this'll be a good year for them w/ their new TV show, etc. We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

    I mean, Jar-Jar had no lines in this movie!
  17. Vic Romano

    Vic Romano Well-Known Member

    FINALLY!!!!! People are finally starting to have some issues with who the Muppets have become! About four years ago when It's a Very Merry Muppet Piece of Crap aired, I tried saying some of the exact things you guys are saying here and I was practically stoned, tarred and feathered for even THINKING that! I love the Muppets as all of you do, and as far as negative depressing comments go; MAYBE SOMEONE IMPORTANT WILL READ 'EM!!! And thus get a clue. There is nothing wrong with some healthy debate, and as fans; it's our right to say when something doesn't meet our approval rather then smile and pretend everything's perfect just because someone slapped the frog's face on it.

    And I am SO SICK of everyone blaming Disney! Do you honestly think they became the company they are today because they treated everything like crap!?! The Muppets have their own holding company, which for the most part give them creative control over what they do. The problem is not Disney, the problem is within the Muppet staff themselves.

    And now to prove I'm not a complete angry jerk, I will smush this banana cream pie in my face.

  18. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Well-Known Member

    I think you guys are right. There needs to be some sort of leader who can tie it all together if we want [good] muppet projects to be made. But there isn't one.

    So, another question: Are most of you holding out to see what will come of the muppets now and believe there is some sort of good future, or do you believe, as I know Kimp has said in the past, that the muppets are dead (that the glory days are gone)?

    Edit: And Vic, you're not a COMPLETE angry jerk. Just a bit of one. ;) Welcome back!
  19. Marky

    Marky Well-Known Member

    Your right, Mrs. Pepper, their glory days are way behind them - that's why Disney bought them. They want to give them the financial shot in the arm they need to be (to paraphrase Disney), put back into the mainstream.

    And I also agree w/ Romano 100% about their current state having nothing to do w/ Disney. They don't. All Disney did was purchase the rights for them. And so what. So Disney's a huge company. So what??? I'm not even American, and I grow tired of all the anti-money, anti-corporate rhetoric spewed from the Left. Business is business. The Muppets have been corporate since most of you were born.

    Kermit's Swamp Years (bleah), Very Merry...(not bad). Disney had nothing at all to do with either of these. The first project that Disney did help with - Christmas Carol (awesome). Next one, Treasure Island (haven't seen it, but I hear it's ok).
  20. Kaiser Gonzo

    Kaiser Gonzo Well-Known Member

    I am going to print of this forum and along with a note i am going t send it to the Muppets holding group and they are going to make the muppets what they were, so well done guys nice points!

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