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Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Kaiser Gonzo, Feb 16, 2006.
Umm... go for it.
Well, I know that many prominent Muppet folk read these boards, so chances are they've already seen some of it.
Um, I'd like to make another constructive idea, as Fozzie suggested. My constructive idea is that maybe they start trying to gear the Muppets for adults again, if that's possible. Like, not for children or even worse, teen appeal. It just seems like that's what they're being associated with these days.
Yeah! You've hit the nail on the head. You only need to go as far as to ask what separated The Muppet Show/Muppet Movie from Sesame Street.
I like the abstract, deliberately trippy stuff they used to have on the show. It was quite psychedelic sometimes in it's early heyday. Bring back the BAND for Pete's sake, too! I love the Mayhem rockin' out!
Watching the 1st season DVD reminds me of how funny the 'violence' could get, too (they came close in IaVMMCM). Not negative violence, but the funny stuff - heads exploding for no reason, monsters eating little guys, Crazy Harry (terrorists ruined that one I guess)! It does not 'damage children'. It's funny.
Kermit or Piggy flirting with female or male guests stars making love triangles, real money problems (again - another reson why I loved IaVMMCM), and real physical danger.
All of these elements were already in the Muppet formula in the 70's. Most of is was washed out by the insipid political correctness period called the 90's leaving what we've got now.
I say to **** with it, just call it PG, no need to go any farther than the old days with it and poof! Zany, carefree Muppet Magic again!
Woo! Brilliant! They SHOULD do that, Marky! The stuff they did back then would totally be taken off the air now, or at least be 'checked over thoroughly' if it were to be a kids show.
I just find it a little sad how all these teenagers go "Oh, I LOVE Kermit!!" or something, but they don't even know who JIM HENSON is! So they need to bring it back up to adult, who can fully appreciate it.
i really thought they did that with Oz i really thought there was somthing for everyone all ages for new people just getting to know muppets, and some stuff for all of us die hard muppet fans. I also want to say that i really dont think Kermit is just rideing on the popularity of the muppet show and SS. they dont show the muppet show on tv any more. Yes the DVD sold well but still, and he is not on SS much at all any more so he is not rideing on his older stuff so to say. He still has a lot of fans from back in the day but he is not rideing on TMS.
I was born in early '69, when most of the few existing Muppets were still minor characters on variety shows. And I still remember when CTW (no name change yet) wasn't licensing Cookie Monster's Chocolate Chip Cookies, Grover's Grape Juice, and "Tickle Me" character dolls...they wanted Henson's creations to teach kids and amuse parents, not to sell as many tie-in products as possible.
The absolute WORST example of Muppets gone commercial, ironically enough, happened years before Sesame Street cut its theme song short in favor of ads for McDonald's and Pampers. When I was in high school, I overheard a radio jingle in which Miss Piggy rapped about a local barbecue restaurant. (That was probably done without permission, but still--what the [bleep]?!?)
Muppets will never be dead.
Firstly, the writing just needs to get better...that, and Disney needs to put more push on what they release. They back such crap like "Valiant" and their new 3-D animated stuff, it's horrendous.
Then, when their video junk comes out (anyone see, much less LIKE "Bambi II"?) they back that instead.
Disney needs to wake up.
They did a great job with MuppetVision and the set-up at California Adventure, the least they could do is release a good Muppet movie and back it up.
It's not Disney! The Muppets have creative control over what they do, and besides, as crappy as Bambi 2 may be, it targets a specific audience and it sells. Everyone wants to blame Disney because they're the owners, but the problem lies within the Muppets Holding Company. Disney may not be innocent, but they're not the reason the Muppets aren't where they need to be, the Muppets were hurtin' long before they went back to Disney.
The Vicster's right! %100.
Anytime Vicco! I like to help set things straight from time to time
I think the Muppets started to decline after Jim and Richard died. I remember watching Muppet Treasure Island when I was eleven, and I said to myself, "There's something missing." I couldn't really put my finger on it, but I knew something was missing.
You've hit the nail on the head, Newsgirl. Particularily Jim Henson. We all know deep dowm that it's never quite really been the Muppets after his passing. I don't think anyone here can truly deny this. It's a given.
I'm not bashing anything post 1990 that the company has done, but one by one, as the classic artists leave (the 2nd most important shift to me was the retirement of the Great Frank Oz, and the third, the abscence of Brian Henson behind the director's seat).
The movies chronologial release order and quality level are in perfect synch with one another. (forgive the annoyingly chiefy anograms)
The Big 3:
The next 3 - (B. Henson) and last theatrical
The Next 3 (g'bye Frank & dir B. Henson)
not good enough for theatrical release
Jerry Juhl, R.I.P. Jerry Nelson? M.I.A.
It's done. At least they left a **** of a legacy behind them!
The Originals are always going to be the best, that's the case with eveything in life from songs to the movies, but when you have beloved characters as great as they do in the Muppets, it would be a tragedy to let it end, and not let newer generations to come enjoy what they have to offer and hopefully be inspired to watch Muppet shows and films of old and help keep the legacy alive.
Many of us were fortunate enough to enjoy the Muppets during their peek and their highest points and we can always look back at the tapes and now, at last the dvds with fond memories, if everyone was to just accept that that's it, bring the curtain down and call it a night, then you can bet companies such as Disney and Master Replicas would not be interested in producing the dvds and replicas then we'd all miss out!
Let's keep our fingers crossed for the "Next Muppet" Mockumentary!
Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't see where there's a problem with anything recent Muppet-wise. The more, the better. All I'm saying is that no one can expect them to be as good as when they were.
It's a lot like the original Star Wars vs the newer prequels. If people would lower their expectations, take a li'l pressure off the ones doing it now, that'd make it easier for everone. Jim and Frank were the best. Period. They're not around. Let's move on, I say. I welcome new stuff, but I sure don't expect it to be as good.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! That says it all. Even though the muppets aren't what they once were and never will be, they are still great. Jim and Frank were the best. If the muppets were to return to as great as they were it would be a discredit to the creative genious of the originators. The muppets are just fine. Anything that lasts in the entertainment industry as long as the muppets goes through changes and peak and valleys in their popularity. The muppets WILL be around forever.
Yeah, no dobt about that. It's tough being a fan to the tried-and-trues. People always love to bash (I'm not 100% innocent). Sometimes the bashing is justifiable.
Bottom line is: everything is subject to opinion and taste. Not to mention one's mood and/or expectations!
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