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What would it take....

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by Redsonga, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    It is true, most of all with parents that are good enough to have a say in what their children watch (who all aren't the "Eeek! this is too scary for Mary Sue" stereotype that many people think IMHO :)
  2. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    Agreed. Kind caregivers--parent or otherwise--should be a person's first teacher, no matter how good the Street is. This way, when the children watch, they understand the material better.
  3. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Exactly! I'm thinking about my future children, not just myself. Parents can't just assume a show is working. They have to do their own research too, that's part of being a parent. Just because a show is popular with an audience doesn't mean parents should assume it's working. :)

    I will say that I partially agree with Mike that it's true that Big Bird wasn't quite a main character because it was supposed to be an ensemble cast. However, he was the closest thing they had. :)
  4. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    Especially when--in the stores that carried the plush toys back in the day--Big Bird was the one to stand out the most (ex: In my JC Penny [We Love Your Style] before they remodeled it, they had--right next to the shoe department--a section exclusively for Sesame Street & in it, they had not only numerous books, games, and plush toys, but they also had a life-size Big Bird replica).
  5. Daffyfan2003

    Daffyfan2003 Active Member

    I agree. Like I mentioned before, if a topic bothers somebody, then they shouldn't need to read it. But this is an open forum, so we should be aloud to discuss whatever we want whenever we want. After all, none of the moderators have said otherwise.

    Anyway, I think it's pretty likely Big Bird will still be around when Carroll's gone, because Matt Vogel will take over. As for Oscar, I'm pretty sure he'll still be around. He'd just have a new performer. But I see what you're saying though. Now they're more focused on getting Elmo and Abby in every ep and putting Big Bird in the background most of the time.
  6. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    But as per most site rules, we cannot post whatever we want whenever we want. This is why we have threads for certain topics.
  7. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I'm gunna go out on a limb and say that, although I have never watched SS regularly since I was a youngling, I slowly grew to dislike the fact that Big Bird just appeared everywhere and was the main character of almost all the home-videos, etc. I felt that it was he, before Elmo, who hogged the spotlight away from such characters as The Count and Ernie and Bert.

    Of course, later on in life, I figured that he was kinda "meant" to be the Kermit to SS's Muppets...but I think the key to SS is variety and keeping a core group main. Never ONE star be that star Big Bird, or Elmo.

    Just my 2.2 cents.
  8. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    Both The Classic Muppets & The Street Gang do that:

    Kermit, Fozzie, Gonzo, Piggy, Scooter, Rowlf, Rizzo, Pepe, etc.

    Bird, Oscar, Grover, The Count, Bert, Ernie, Elmo, etc.
  9. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's actually a very good point. The way I figure is that big Bird really was the first of them to garner celebrity status, dispite the fact that it was really Bert and Ernie who came first (test shows). Though, it seems that Germany LOVES Bert and Ernie so much, they appear in special original recordings and Ernie even had a sepcial full sized TME EX toy.

    I figure that Big Bird is sort of the Kermit... sort of. He's not quite the host of the show, but he's usually the main "Street" segment muppet that appears all the time.
  10. Daffyfan2003

    Daffyfan2003 Active Member

    Well, that's true. But we should be able to talk about what will happen when a character or performer leaves the show. Or even whether or not the 'Fix-It Shop' is still around or not. I don't believe there are any rules against that.
  11. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    Certainly not.
  12. Daffyfan2003

    Daffyfan2003 Active Member

    Exactly. But I'm sure there's a rule about respecting others' opinions. It upsets me when people complain about these types of discussions. It's not you, Pooh. And I don't want to mention any names because I don't want to argue with Mi -- uh, that person and get in trouble. But I do get sick of the fact that every time we have a topic like this, I hear complaints. People need to realize that we're aloud to discuss this stuff and if they don't like it they shouldn't read it. It's as simple as that.
  13. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    I just wonder, what would have to happen to, if not make BB the focus again (I'll admit he is one of my favorites, I did like him as the unofficial star) at least get the muppet cast back to where it is more balanced again and showcases the whole SS family, not just the newest ones and Elmo...
    I'm not asking this because I hate Elmo or anything, but the whole SS family of muppets use to be good at showing a different range of emotions, age groups, and storylines. Now, with only the youngest, most happy go lucky monsters (Has anyone noticed that there seems to be a sort of unspoken rule about making children's show characters happy 99.9% of the time now :\?) as stars it seems to me to have lost some of its depth , and some of the higher levels what it could be teaching...
    And to me, BB best represents this lost depth...but if it was just as simple as rewriting a few episodes why has no one done it yet?
    I know today's children are use to the format and don't like change but...things changed about SS when I was little and I was sad for a while, but I got use to the new things. It takes more than a handful of episodes to get use to something new...

    I'm not saying anything like get rid of Elmo, I just think that SS could change from what it is now and do well, and teach more..Even if it means a couple of days of lower ratings...Little ones always bounce back:)
  14. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    Thank the fact that SS is now mainly just targeted at the youngest of ages.
    Yep. I mean, back in our day--good gravy I sound old when I say that--we had films geared towards kids that were rated G, but yet, had topics that were controversially needed like blood, death, religion, utter villiany, and an open mind towards any orientation. Don Bluth's films showcase this nicely:

    1. In Secret of NIMH, the villainous rat Jenner goes all psychotic, killing two characters--Nicodemius and Sullivan--before being killed himself (and all three deaths show blood involved).

    2. In All Dogs Go To Heaven, all four issues are tackled in that Charlie dies--twice--Heaven and a certain hot place are depicted; Carface proves that not all dogs should go to Heaven by kidnapping orphan Anne Marie (whose voice actress [Judith] is killed before her time at ten years old, due to her drunken, homicidal father), killing Charlie, and treating his lackey Killer like crud; King Croc is a male alligator and yet, he clearly displays what were considered to be homosexual qualities (such as talking/singing about making "music together", dressing like a drag queen, wearing lipstick, etc.) in a stereotypically-speaking way, of course (and this is because I know--and frogboy can probably vouche for this--that not all gays display the aformentioned qualities).

    3. In Rock-a-Doodle, Goldie--Chanticleer's girl and mother of her and his children by the end of the film--was originally to be depicted as the pheasant version of Jessica Rabbit, but she was redrawn because of parental complaints. As well, as funny as he is, The Grand Duke was going to kill all of Chanti's friends once he gained control over everything, for remember what he said to Edmond (the little boy who was transformed by the dark magic of 'Uncle Dookie' into a coonskin-capped kitten) over the phone before he snips the phone line, "He-He-Hello...uh...kitty? When the batteries expire, so do your friends. Too-da-loo. Cheerio. Bye."

    4. In Ferngully, the "balance of nature" between the magical creatures of the rainforest and we humans shifted to just some downright uncaring humans bringing to life the oil creation known as Sludge (I think that's his name) and as a result, the rainforest--and all its life--nearly died.
  15. Daffyfan2003

    Daffyfan2003 Active Member

    And don't forget the death of Mufasa in The Lion King.
  16. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    I always though the Crocodile was a girl..or nearly..I thought they made a good pair......anyhow...:coy:
    The point is, we could deal with characters not being happy go lucky all the time and even death and he double hockey sticks when we were little. It may have scared us at first, but we still watched it, even if it, like Watership Down did for me, never stopped scaring us...

    So why can't today's children be raised on showing even much more mild versions of not niceness on SS (and other shows, but that is another rant) in bigger amounts? And maybe at the same time raise most of the show back to 5-6 year old level in terms of teaching?:wisdom:
  17. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    That's a Disney film (Don Bluth did work for Disney in the early days, but he left before TLM started production) and actually, that was more geared towards the modern-day "pan-away-as-a-character-dies" style. Don Bluth's style was direct and actually shows what happens when a character dies (in ADGTH, a deleted scene was recorded showing Charlie actually getting hit by the car & in NIMH, the blood within all the character deaths is left intact).
  18. SSLFan

    SSLFan Well-Known Member

    Same here. I Love all of the SS muppets, but I really miss the days when BB was the 'leader of the group' sorta speak(although everyone else was given equal time as well). I still can't believe the fact that the Bird has been put into the background in recent years...who could've predicted that?lol. At least other classic muppets like Oscar and Cookie have been getting decent airtime though.

    But I think there may be hope for our feathered friend, merchandising wise anyway. Lately I've noticed(and I'm hope I'm not jinxing it!) at the SSL shows, they've started selling BB plushes again. They've been doing it for awhile, although they recently dropped their Cookie and Zoe ones, and only sell BB and Elmo ones(like they used to). I've also seen more BB and Abby books(a pair don't you think?). It could be a sign of something, I hope...
  19. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    BB could teach Abby so many things :). I've always been a fan of the older muppet younger muppet helping each other idea. I think she could learn a lot more from BB than Elmo (not that Elmo couldn't still have his own place) and the viewers could to:)
  20. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh New Member

    Agreed. Bird has always been--sans earlier years when he was the only young Muppet on the show--the voice of wisdom and could impart knowledge to Abby in a way that Elmo could not (no offense to Elmo, but his teaching methods need some work).


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