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Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Beauregard, Apr 21, 2004.
What's the difference between the US and Dutch versions of Muppets from Space?
I second that! I have a better chance of finding 100million Dollars on the ground then Frank Oz has to come back to the muppet's!!! I think Jim is turning in his grave afer Franks departure!
Well... as much as I like Frank, you could tell, even before Jim's death, he was losing the passion of playing cerrtain Muppets. I think Jim's Passing clenched it. Look at late 80's SS skits. You see less of Grover, Bert, and Cookie... and there was an astouning lack of them (hense th "Elmo taking over SS mentality of SS fans) there were few from time to time... they didn't really make a come back until Frank decided to let others continue or fill in his roles. With the exception of Cookie Monster and Sam the Eagle, Eric and other performers breath new life into the characters... Look at Miss Piggy. If you watch MFS and MTi, you can tell Frank's just dubbing, and someone's performing. The chemestry between Piggy and Kermit was way off, plus you get the lack of spontinaiety from Frank's characters that made them so great. Miss Piggy's, HYYYYYYAAAAA, Cookie's "Cowabunga," and Grover's fainting were all improvised. Plus, Eric just sounds better as Piggy, nowadays... Frank was getting worn.... This is pretty much the only thing I really give VMX over the last movies.
I think that Drtooth is correct; Frank OZ will not be going back to performing. My personal opinion is he got tired of his characters behaving badly, I mean do you honestly think Frank Would Allow Fozzy Bear to pick his nose like he does not know any better, or Sam who stands for Truth and Dignity checking out girls on the beach. The magic just is not there, nor is the chemistry between the characters. But I am glad that there are people who can do the voices, and it is very smart to have one performer per Muppet character, a lot less stress on the performer. Frank like Jim will always be remembered as one of the masters or the trade, and a truly great performer, but I think he is enjoying the directing and producing aspect of things.
As for Very Merry Muppet Christmas, this was a totally failure. The writing is just awful and I felt hallow inside. Not at all In the Holiday mood, but what startled me the most was the heavy drug reference. F you do not know what I am talking about I will be more than happy to explain.
I can assure you that the reason Frank left does not have to do with his Muppets behaving badly. If you have read any interview that Frank has done, he likes to drop the "f-bomb" quite a lot. I did not see it, but supposedly he even said it on the Today Show. Frank just wanted to stop doing puppetry and move on to other things.
I did not know that, I was only making a guess. But because Frank uses the F word does not mean that he wants his characters to use it as well. But any way like I said I am only guessing. I can kind of understand Frank wanting to move on and do other things. Besides the company is and has been changing, and like all things with change, it gives us oppertunity to do other things, and to try something new.
Persoanly I would rather see all my Muppet Pails back in action, and I will have to get used to the new voices. The chemistry will come in time ( I think) Once things with the Disney merger settle down, and the Muppets are back into performing full tilt again that old magic will come back.
But that is again just my point of view.
This is the same complaint I hear every time the movie is brought up. personally, I feel the idea itself was pretty good, and Muppets being in a movie where they are themselves, and not letting out the origins of certain characters (Gonzo?!) was a good direction. The writing was okay, and Eric had better time with Piggy and Fozzie than Frank's been having in the last 2 movies prior. Personally, I think the real success of the movie was seeing most of the characters, not just a favorite few, all of which had pretty decent parts similar to older movies and the TV show, and not playing second (or third) to B-list celebs like Michael Caine and Tim Curry (though I quite enjoyed him as Long John Silver). Plus, I feel if you can take a lousy scrpit and act the heck out of it, you get a better result than a good script with crummy or wooden delivery. IMO, the Muppets were in top form, so the movie wasn't quite as bad for me s it was for anybody else.
Out of the ones I've seen so far (Didn't see KSY yet... too afraid too... ditto Elmo in Grouchland) MCC is the one I like the least.... Mainly because the Muppets are like guest stars in their own movie. I just really didn't like that at all. Especially Fozzie's 2 minutes total in the movie, counting the aged version of him in the background during the second tolst number.
KSI/Muppets from space/Very Merry Muppet Christmas. DISCRACEFULL!
I'd have to go with "A Very Merry Muppet Christmas" nice thought, I enjoyed it. Not quite up with par as far as muppet movies go.
This may be getting off topic, but... Michael Caine a B-list celeb????? Surely not! Have you ever seen "The Quiet American"? Good Lord that man can act! I'll definitely admit he's made some bad career choices ("Jaws 4" anyone?), but he is still a very, very talented actor. On a side note, I once heard a really funny quote by Caine that went something like this: "I've never seen Jaws 4, but I've seen the house it paid for and it's quite beautiful."
Muppets In OZ
I think we have in some ways talk this to death. The one question that remains onmy mind is what will The Muppets Wizard of OZ Be? A flop or truly great.
They are taking (as always) Muppet liberties with the story and making it truly there own. I do not care for the human cast but think the Muppet characters will do an excelent job.
I am really just wondering where Disney will set the bar, high, or way way to low. I am hopeing for some middle ground, and an all out good time with out behaving to badly, or to many potty jokes.
And I agree seing the hole cast of Muppets back in action is good. the voices as I have said I will have to get used to, but then with Steve speaking for Kermit. I am not suprised that others have been filling in for and taking over the principal cast.
What is this so-called "drug reference?" And Sam watching the girls was supposed to be a very out of character reference! It was supposed to be out of character!!
Drug Refrence In Very MerryMuppet Christmas
OK, I understand that a lot of people will have overlooked this, and that is cool because unless you know about it, or have seen Moulin Rouge you probably do not know what exactly I am talking about.
Absenth is a very old drink that is outlawed here in the states; in fact there are not too many places that you can get it any more outside of Europe/ Germany. I do not know exactly how it is produced, but it is an alcoholic drink and lime green in color, but it is truly more than that. Absenth, if you can stand to drink enough of it is more like a delusional drug. I think that it has opium, or in some ways the same effects as opium on its users, and it is like drinking pure alcohol. Typically a sugar cube is heated on a spoon above the glass until it begins to melt and bubble, then it is quickly dropped into the Absenth stirred and then you drink it. The sugar makes the absenth only slightly more palatable, and it is rumored that the great artist Toulouse-Lautrec drank absenth, over indulged in it and alcohol eventually killed him. In the film Moulin Rouge Toulouse and his theater troupe along with the young man who falls in live with Satin all drink Absenth.
Now for the Muppets and there production of Moulin Scrooge, Kermit comes out on stage carrying a mug full of as he calls it a funny strange green liquid (Absenth). And then Robin comes flying out of the liquid as the green fairy, this obvious reference to being on an alcohol or Absenth induced trip. Which shocked the **** out of me, they had of course watered it down but suddenly I realized that it was almost like telling kids that it was ok to do drugs because you might get to meet the green fairy. This refrence comes directly from the film Moulin Rouge, but again I stress the fact that this is only my opinion.
If it is not Absenth then what is that green liquil Kermit is holding in the mug supposed to be?
So I guess no one knows what that green studd is suposed to be?
Wow, I'm kind of shocked MFS was voted so poorly! I personally liked it. Now, this is weird but, I can't say that I disliked KSY, I just never got through it. Bottom of the list? It's a very Merry Muppet Piece of Garbage. Ha! Sorry, I don't mean to sound that upset at the piece.
But seriously everybody, and I hope a moderator backs me up here, it's healthy for all of us to have opinions about these things and it's not cool to go after someone just because they think Mr. Oz shouldn't curse. We're all fans here! We CAN disagree! I've seen some members get eaten alive for saying they don't like the direction the Muppets are going in. If you love them the way they are now or the way they were then... then let the other guy have his way! Remember, we're UNITING fans around the world.
That was very well said. I agree!
Kermit called it "funny green root beer!" (He emphasized "root", too.)
Thank you, I appreciate that. I just got it in another forum for apparently pretending to know what Jim wanted. Lighten up people! It's all in fun!
I see where you're coming from, I am totally anti-drugs and am forever forcing my ant-drug belief system on people. But it was just a spoof of Moulin Rouge; and I-- (sorry but I cant quite say what I mean without sounding ******!!) . It's like...its not supposed to be a drug reference. It wasnt put in place to be a drug reference. It was just one of the many scenes from Moulin Rouge that was spoofed
(FYI, Kylie is still the best green fairy ever!!!!!)
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