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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Disneys Muppets, Jul 6, 2004.
I can definitely agree with you on that one
See where being "high on life" gets you, Doctor Teeth! I'm only kidding.
I'm just noticing the arguments are HEAVY (not to be confused with heavenly, hee hee). First of all, the Bible is open to interpretation because every version of the Bible we have has been interpreted by someone else somehow or another. Basically, we can not truly know what God wants from us because we are receiving "His word" from the mouths (or hands for that matter) of men, all of whom have their own biases, opinions and faults. Did you ever play "Telephone" when you were kids? Where a bunch of you sit in a circle and one person thinks of a phrase and whispers it to the person next to them, and that person whispers it to the next and so on until it gets around the circle and back to the first person, only to discover that the phrase has totally changed. This is sort of how I think of the Bible. It can't be completely accurate because the more people re-interpret the Bible, the more people have an opportunity to screw up, and how many thousands of years has the Bible been circulating? And how many interpretations have been written over that span? That's a lot of opportunity.
Next, can Kermit or Mickey Mouse be considered idols? Some think so, others don't, because we all have our own interpretation of what idolotry is. Maybe no one is bowing to Kermit and calling him our Saviour, but what about the people who spend their money on an Adventure Kermit action figure rather than donating that money to a charity in God's name? No one's at fault for buying action figures, or maybe they are. Who knows? People who have faced judgment know...and where are they? Up there or down below. The way I see it, Kevin Smith has a very healthy outlook on religion (see Dogma). Smith's movie stresses having an idea of religion rather than a full blown belief. Throughout all of history, beliefs have gotten mankind into trouble (the Crusades, the Holocaust, and now the war in Iraq, as has been pointed out by timrikthegorf). The idea is to maintain your values and morals as you see fit, live your life the way you think it should be lived, do your best to be good and accept Christ as your Saviour and God will surely credit you for doing your best. Call me immoral or what-have-you, but I don't even attend church. I lost all interest in church when I came to the realization that cliques were formed among the church members, fund-raisers were held for teenagers to go on ski-trips and offerings were used to plow down a low-income family's home to make room for a parking lot. Not my ideal of Godly, if you know what I mean. I realize this is only one church and most likely does not reflect the actions of most churches, but I'm not taking my chances. God knows my heart and my mind, and if it's His will to allow me into the pearly gates of Heaven then I know I will be in perfect company. If not, then it's no one's fault but my own and I will live in eternal regret.
As far as this country being built on the foundation of religion, you can be sure that our forefathers had God and/or the Bible in mind when they wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They wanted what was best for themselves and their countrymen, as well as future generations. They maintained traditional Christian values by declaring the equality of all men and their right to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but seperated their laws from God's by allowing freedom of religion. Were the people who looked toward the Bible to justify slavery and burning so-called witches at the stake wrong in doing so? At the time, apparently not, because they got away with it. To this day, no one really knows where to draw the line between U.S. "law" and God's "law". We have separation of church and state yet churches still proudly hang U.S. flags and many state buildings still display the 10 Commandments. It's why there is such controversy about prayer in schools (if a kid wants to pray, let him/her pray, if they don't, don't make them-it's not difficult!) and teaching evolution (Charles Darwin was an historical researcher who made a tremendous discovery on the Galapogos Islands regarding birds and their beaks, just draw a line at the apes-it's not difficult!)
I realize some of you (if not all) will want to burn me at the stake for what I've written and that's okay. Just be sure to bury me with my Adventure Kermit.
Why "draw a line at the apes"? It's science. It's a theory derived from study and data. And the founding fathers did not have religionj in mind when creating the constituion. Why do people have such a problem with that? Have you read the constitution? It's not a moral code of any sort. It's a structure for government. It has nothing to do with religion. And as was pointed out the bill of rights actually give people te right to break certain laws of God. The country was simply not founded on religion. That doesn't make religion bad or the country bad. It simply separates them. And yet after the founding fathers died christianity started to make it's way into the government, usually when hard times hit.
The country is set up so hat everyone has a choice how to live his or her life without harming others. Well, that's what it WAS. Again, when hard times hit the government tends to do radical things. During the depression it was prohibition. Then when vietnam hit they distracted people with the war on drugs. now we have the war in Iraq and we were distracted by "morality" with gay marriage and the FCC. I guess history really does repeat itself.
We simply are not a theocracy, or at least we aren't suppose to be.
Religon and Faith are a way of life not just a Moral Code
you where born in 1984 That explains alot right there. Prohibition had nothing to with the Depression
You just look for things wrong and blame people of coverups which is pretty funny beacuse you expect normal people do be like JESUS and be Perfect
What i was saying was that @ a Simpsons Message board i started to call a spade a spade and they got mad because they pathetic i
I repect the people here and enjoy the Conversation, even thou people get mad just bring uit
Ok. What does 1984 have to do with anything?? (or is that a reference to the book???) I'm lost but then again I have been the entire time.Ok back to not saying anything.
Well I would think people would live their life by a moral code, thus making one's morality a way of life, be it derived from religion or not. Go figure.
Gee, I'm sorry I'm only 20 and wasn't born in in the 20's. I don't know everything about prohibition, but I just looked it up, and while it was enacted during the depression it was not enacted due to the depression, My mistake, at least I can admit I'm wrong. Either way, it was taking away people choice because of the religious belief that alcohol consumption was wrong.
I expect normal people to be kind and peaceful. I don't think that's asking too much. There are plenty of people like that. I expect people not to use God as a reason to hate and make war. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation, do you?
Correct the Book
I get it. Hmm.....interesting.
I was just correcting u on Prohibation. i can admit when i am wrong but i really don't Recall the fact that Prohiibition was started based on religous beliefs but i will check
Religion is the way we live and War is fought for those reasons but remember WWII and War on Terror where Satrted because of the Attack on US because of there Religous Convictions, Which involes Bigamoy but who am i to judge.
WW2 was fought because we were atacked. The war in Iraq was not fought because we were attacked. Iraq DID NOT attack us. It's a morally questionable war. We said they had weapons, couldn't prove it, told them to give us the weapons ans surrender or be attacked, they had no weapons to give us and didn';t surrender (after all, it was Saddam's country, what did we expect him to do?), so we attacked.
If you look at Islam it's not all that different from Christianity. It was based on the same kinds of beliefs. Only they reguard women much higher than christians. Both sides have their crazy extremists though.
Now I'm very tired so I'm taking a rest from this conversation.
timrikthegorf i Like you beacuse you speak intellagently and are not as Radical as your contemparies even though i am only 6 years older i condsider my myself seprate of most College Aged People
I ran into alot of them the past year. Alot, only regregate Leftist propaganda and Left Coast Celeberties and only support Kerry-Edwards because he is not George W. Bush
But, alot of the Kids didn't vote or forgot to register
The Most Intresting thing i found was like in Aug. i think i took a poll to take the importance of religion in Listeners lives, only 59% responded that it guides their lives on a day in day out bases when 98% are "affilated with a certin faith"
well i wish u would reconsider but you are wrong based on Islamlomic nations disrespect thier Women
I'm not taking a rest from the thread forever. Just long enough to like sleep. And how do they disrespect women? I know the propaganda, but how does the religion disrespect women?
Oh, and I'm not actually in college even though I'm college age. Was for like half a semester and hated it. No one side of the fence is the right side to be on. And if you take the fence up you'll realize the two sides aren't all that different, and yet all we focus on are the differences.
That's because we are human. (There I go opening my big mouth again)
it the way of life i would never make a women walk behind me or act like she is second class i am Lebanese and i grew up seeing my relatives especilly the older ones
I say "draw a line at the apes" because that is where the contoversy lies. Humans and apes, apes and humans, humans from apes, the missing link. Cut out the apes and you cut out the problem. As far as I know, no one has ever suggested that humans have evolved from the Galapagos birds, therefore not near as many people should be offended by the idea.
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? That little document that states the beliefs of our forefathers that they had the right to dissolve ties with Britain and King George III, and that right came from "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God". They also believed that their certain "unalienable rights" of "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness" were endowed to them by "their Creator" (anyone sick of quotation marks yet?). Sure, they don't actually mention God in the Constitution, but they certainly had these "unalienable rights" granted us by God in mind when writing the Constitution. The Constitution is not a religious document and it does not refer to religion or God, but it was written with the ideals in mind...the ideals that every (applicable) American should have access to.
P.S. I say "applicable" above because many of our forefathers had slaves and slaves weren't considered citizens in those days. So certain unalienable rights did not apply to them back then.
even though the election is done and already over, If I HAD the chance, i would most defently have voted for Kerry. I'm sick and tired of how Bush is spending all this money on a war that we shouldn't have gone into. Yes, 9/11 is something to be fighting over, one of my closests friends cousin died in it. But honestly, I think that Mr. GWB doesn't know what he's gotten himself into, nor does he know how to get himself out. With him raising taxes and not letting homosexuals getting married has pushed me to a level that most people would never EVER see me in. I'm not saying that I myself am a homosexual, but i have alot of very close friends that are, and dislike Bush as much as myself.
And yes... I am a tree hugger :E
ok... my rant is over... :00
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