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Your Thoughts: Muppets Letters to Santa

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by Phillip, Dec 17, 2008.

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What did you think of the "Letters to Santa" special?

I loved "Letters to Santa". 74 vote(s) 40.2%
"Letters to Santa" was good. 70 vote(s) 38.0%
"Letters to Santa" was just so-so. 27 vote(s) 14.7%
I disliked "Letters to Santa". 13 vote(s) 7.1%

  1. RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    Well, I didn't have a sibling until I was 5 and even then, most of my family members were at least in their teens. I always felt like I was cooing over babies or talking to adults. Cousins that were my age ... I hardly saw. So, I'm much more comfortable around adults than children (well, and trying to teach made that discomfort even more pronounced). I, too, don't know what it's like to have "peers".

    Anyway, over on the Skeeter thread, I came up with an idea that I've been kinda obsessing over. All our talk about how Sesame'd this special seemed may be missing the true concept. What if we're not seeing a Sesame'd version of the Muppets ...

    ...

    but a "Muppet Babies" version of the Muppets?

    They're living with a human (and her kid). Scooter has a higher voice and a computer. Gonzo struggles with what others consider a weird and active imagination. True, we're talking adult Muppets (Robin aside), but I think what we think we've been seeing as SS Muppets is really MB Muppets. Like they're trying to balance TMS with MB. And it's not just here. I can see it in other properties as well. It's like, post-Jim, the Muppets have been wavering between Dinosaurs-like adult humor and Muppet Babies characterizations.

    I can see how Redsonga would be more influenced by Muppet Babies. I only saw Fraggle Rock when my family was on vacation, I barely remember a few episodes of TMS and Jim Henson Hour ... Muppet Babies is really the only consistent thing outside of Sesame Street I've seen.

    That's not to say Muppet Babies is bad or that they shouldn't attempt some of that direction. It's still watchable even in my thirties (and there are very few cartoons I watched as a kid that can boast that). Personally, I think Scooter needs to return to his geekiness. As the tech person in my family, I had a lot to admire about Baby Scooter and his computer. And I'll be honest, as much as I love the Electric Mayhem, Muppet Babies had memorable songs.

    The point is that I wouldn't mind seeing a more consistent and well-balanced fusion of TMS Muppets and MB Muppets. I personally loved VMX, but I like snarkiness in general and it fit the tone of a parody of a very depressing movie. However, LTS wasn't unlikable. Like others have said, it needs a "mixture".
  2. unclematt Active Member

    I just want them to come back to thier glory. I honestly dont care how they do it.
  3. Redsonga Active Member

    It makes of sense that what I see as the muppets was effected a lot by Muppet Babies even if I did see the movies, so I agree: If the muppets are going back to a more MBs feeling I don't think I would ever see that as a step backward...It has felt to me for the last few years like the muppets have sort of been floating around and this may give them more direction for re-doing the characters they have to build back up again after years of not having them as much :excited:
  4. unclematt Active Member

    You have to understand that the Muppets we saw on The Muppet Babies are not the true Muppets. Just like it wasnt the real Mystery Inc. on A Pup Named Scooby Doo and it is not the real Looney Tunes on the Baby Loony Tunes show. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say. If we turn the real Muppets into thier Muppet Babies characters it would bve a huge step backward. They need to return to the smart and sarcastis and sassy Muppets of the Movie and the Caper and Manhattan. Just my opinion.
  5. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I tend to think of the Muppet Babies cartoon program as a mere continuance of Miss Piggy's daydream sequence in The Muppets Take Manhattan and nothing more. It doesn't match up with anything before established about the characters. Even in MTM, Piggy states *wouldn't* it be great *if* they'd known one another when they were little. That implies they didn't. That doesn't diminish the cartoon program for those who love it. It's just not cannon to the classic Muppet characters. I think of the Muppet Babies as tales of fictitious fables come to life in animation.

    I wouldn’t say writing the babies into the classic characters would be a *step backwards* as much as it would be a *misstep* period. It just shouldn’t be done. However, once the Muppets get back their former glory I see no problem with a new *and separate* Muppet Babies production.
  6. unclematt Active Member

    I will agree with you on that 100%
  7. RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying they should act like toddlers. It's just that are some personality quirks in MB that could be used. I've read on this forum people complaining about "mature" Gonzo ... but you know what it reminds me of? Baby Gonzo was a daredevil and stuff too, but he was also extremely thoughtful and such. Scooter in TMS was just the eager suck-up. He could get along with others but ... oh well. So Scooter became a nerd. Animal ... sorry, I just can't see a difference. :D Piggy was a smidge more spiteful, which I don't really care for.

    Since MB postdates TMS, them picking up a few quirks can't possibly be considered "backwards".
  8. Redsonga Active Member

    I agree, that's what I meant to really :). If the writers feel characters have to change for whatever reason, at least it is coming from somewhere solid we remember and not out of thin air sort of (which could be something worst in everyones book). Even if the MBs didn't match up exactly with anything history wise I always felt that there was a certain truth to how the characters acted and I wouldn't mind if that was used for some supporting characters :).
  9. RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    It's entirely possible that Piggy was daydreaming about certain aspects of MB in MTM and that the MB we see are the canon ones.

    Isn't all we see of their room the Xmas tree, some presents, and a bit of the walls? Maybe they were together in some way when they were little, but not necessarily in "Nanny's" nursery.
  10. unclematt Active Member

    In MTM there is no baby Animal but there is in MFC
  11. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I couldn't see them being raised together if Fozzie's Ma doesn't know who Kermit is at the beginning of the special. I have always found that bit to be incongruent to the rest of the appoximations introduced. I just consider it all to be some sort of Christmas home movie when they all crossed paths for a moment.

    I've always considered their ages to be different. My thought is that Kermit was in his late 20s/early 30s, Piggy was in her late 30s, Fozzie was in his 20s, Scooter was a teenager, Rowlf always seemed to be in his 40s or later, Bunsen would be in his 50s, Beaker might be in his early 20s and the Mayhem would range from late 30s to maybe even early 60s. There we have a range of teens to 60s. The reason why I believe the Muppets work for different generations is that all different ages are represented. Just my thoughts.
  12. unclematt Active Member

    Janice is in her 20's. Thats the only thing I disagree with on the ages which makes it even more uncannon because she was a toddler on MB
  13. Vic Romano Active Member

    Holy crap... I never thought of that!
  14. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    That was the year Ma Bear spent in the slammer. Kidding, of course.
  15. unclematt Active Member

    It doesnt matter because we all know that Kermit didnt meet Fozzie until they met at the El Sleezo Cafe.
  16. heralde Well-Known Member

  17. Erine81981 Active Member

    I was going to let everyone here know that is if they don't already know about this web site or they've already seen this speical. But here at www.surfthechannel.com you can watch the whole thing from start to finish.

    Just thought i would let the ones who live in the UK that arn't able or just missed it when it first aired then go there. It's a wonderful web site to visit.
  18. Libba Yuki Member

    I don't think there is a true Muppet canon, sure there are nods between the shows and films...but they never seem to quite match up.

    Muppet Family Christmas implies that some of the Muppet crew got to meet each other at some point when they were babies (judging from the home movies...even though Ma Bear didn't know who Kermit was). Yet the Muppet Show and the Muppet Movie indicate that's not so.

    Scooter (from what I understand, haven't seen it for myself yet) was introduced on the Muppet show as the teenage nephew of the theater's owner, and that's how he got his job. Yet, in the Muppet Movie he's the manager of the Electric Mayhem.

    Gonzo meets Camilla on the Muppet Show, and begins to date her there. In the Muppet Movie they're already an item.
  19. heralde Well-Known Member

    Right, the Muppets are more in the old school of Vaudeville and 1930s films, where you had the same types of characters, played by the same actors, but in different situations. (Playing a cop, then a robber, etc.)
  20. frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Kermit tells Robin in The Muppet Movie that it is approximately how they got started. Future discrepancies aside I loosely base Muppet cannon on TMM.

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