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Your Thoughts: Muppets Letters to Santa

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by Phillip, Dec 17, 2008.

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What did you think of the "Letters to Santa" special?

  1. I loved "Letters to Santa".

    74 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. "Letters to Santa" was good.

    71 vote(s)
    38.4%
  3. "Letters to Santa" was just so-so.

    27 vote(s)
    14.6%
  4. I disliked "Letters to Santa".

    13 vote(s)
    7.0%

  1. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    Hmm...I'd rather save a bag (and a tree :)) forget about VMX altogether and keep LTS thank you :3. *hugs it*
     
  2. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Woah, that was kind of snarky. Were you on the VMX writing staff? ;)
     
  3. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    No...I didn't mean it snakily ether (I have a temper and I'm stubborn but I never mean things in true anger to anyone. Just image everything I type in a small cheery voice and you have me in RL :3):excited:, it's just of all the films VMX is one of my least favorites so I'd rather not mix the two :3. You know now that I think of it: Growing up I only saw at most two episodes of the Muppet Show itself, and that was when I was already a teenager to so things like the theater setting (apart from the one at the start of TMM and the one in MTM) hold no sentimental value for me as far as where the muppets 'belong'. That's not to say I don't enjoy TMS setting, but it doesn't carry as much weight to me at someone that grew up seeing every episode from the get go.... I grew up with the muppets away from being on stage, or in the pretend nursery, so VMX's return to that just doesn't carry the same feeling for me to offset all the low points..if that makes any sense:cry:.
    On the other hand happy energy+the muppets out and about (LTS) is the muppets to me in a way, since, well, my mind just doesn't deep down link them to the stage (even though I have nearly all the season sets now)....
    *sigh* Go ahead, you can kick me out of the muppet fan club now :( *sniffles and walks away sadly*
     
  4. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    I think part of the appeal of IAVMMCM is that Kermit is right where he belongs. The curtain's up and the lights are bright and they're playing our old song... wait.

    Anyway, Kermit's the main character again in IAVMMCM. The focus is on him and what he's going through, and that hadn't happened for 12 years at that point. His emotional journey in that film seemed like what he went through in The Muppets Take Manhattan at times. Similair, anyway. Kermit's always been snarky, the same as how Charlie McCarthy was snarky, though I do agree the overall tone of the film was a bit more "snarky" and sarcastic than in the past. The whole thing seemed like a step in the right direction for many, though. A lot of posts at that time reflected that opinion.
     
  5. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    The theater is the Muppets' origin so of course that's where they belong. ;) It's also where many of the character dynamics come from. I like seeing them both in and out of the theater. It had been so long since we'd seen them in their natural vaudeville setting so that made VMX even more special to original Muppet Show fans like me. But that's beside the point.

    There's good and bad in every movie. I don't particularly like MFS or KSY. I give them both close to failing grades as far as films go, but I will freely admit to the several good moments they contain when I am criticizing them. Surely there must have been some good in VMX that you did like or maybe you just paint with a wider brush than I do when viewing things. Black or white, yes or no, bad or good with no exceptions.

    Where VMX has more of an actual story, Kermit as the leader and a classic setting - LTS has the joy; it has the music and the Muppety spirit of Christmas I haven't seen since the days of Jim. Those are the elements I'd like to see mixed together. That's my feeling on the matter as a lifelong Muppet and Muppet Show fan that grew up while the projects were contemporary instead of nostalgic. I'm a TMS/TMM/GMC fan first instead of the younger MFS/MT/KSY generation. I still think a Muppet project can have it all and suit all tastes. :)
     
  6. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    I have exceptions, I really do, it's just that VMX didn't have any real strong ones for me :(. It left a bad taste in my mouth that small good parts couldn't wash away...
    Well really one persons nostalgic is another persons here and now, and they learn to love it at whatever point they end up being born around as that being just the way the muppets are :). I dunno, I was born at an inbetween time I guess, TMS wasn't being shown on tv where I lived, but my parents owned a first copy of The Muppet Movie on a 70's VHS, Muppet Babies was on, and I had GMC and the Muppet's trip to Disneyworld recorded on an old tape I would watch over and over.

    I didn't actually see MTM until a few years ago (Not because I didn't want to but I actually didn't know it was ever made and didn't have internet, it was so weird seeing the muppet babies as puppets after so many years of them being only a cartoon O.O )
    I guess because of my not seeing more than a couple episodes of TMS, plus the fact that I never saw MTM (I love the muppets and fantasy movies and I never saw Labyrinth until I was nineteen to, weird isn't it?) is why I link Kermit and everyone more to walking around in the world than the stage (not that I dislike them being on stage but it doesn't have that warm link to memories for me) ....

    All that said I think any generation of fan can love LTS and KSY, we don't need to group it into ages :3. Even though I don't like VMX I don't think it is because I am older or anything, I just as a person don't care for it.

    In the end I guess, everyones history with the muppets is different, and even two fans born at the same time can see and love the muppets for different reasons :)...
     
  7. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I did appreciate its good message, but it was overtaken by the jadedness and trying too hard to seem adult. The older projects didn't have to try as hard to be adult.
     
  8. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Actually, you created the initial age linkage (at least for your part) in saying:
    I do think there is a generational element to how the projects are perceived, but it is one of several factors. I can understand how someone from my generation would expect the Muppets to have a sharper wit than has been seen in recent years. It just appears that you won't give VMX its due in *any* sense. That just goes beyond reason IMHO. I guess it's back to the black or white viewpoint. I see things in many Muppety colors.
     
  9. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Sometimes you just don't like movies though, hehe. I think VMX could have had a good story but the jokes just pulled it down in my opinion. Older Muppet movies didn't have to try so hard to seem adult.
     
  10. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I agree with some of that. VMX certainly did go too far over the edge in some of its jokes. We disagree with the degree, but I get it.

    However - to say either VMX or LTS have *no* good moments for a fan is ridiculous. I didn't like MFS and pretty much loathed KSY, but both contain some great Muppety moments for this fan. MFS had that wonderful opening sequence, some great comedy with Pepe, some soulful Gonzo moments and a good sense of camaraderie. KSY had a great musical number with Life as a Pet and some fun moments with new characters Goggles and Croaker. MFS gains a D from me and KSY an F. It's clear they are both films that I do not like, but to paint my distaste with such a wide brush that it eclipses some real Muppety value would be blind stubbornness on my part. Again, I see in MuppetColor not mere black and white.
     
  11. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I think nearly every movie has something redeamable yeah, but sometimes that's just not enough if the overal product upset you.
     
  12. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    I didn't mean it as an age link though, I just meant I didn't see it so I didn't have much emotional history to weigh it against, that could happen with anyone of any age if they didn't have the same sort of cable tv when TMS was on, even the older generations:sympathy:. So the stage element didn't hold much weight for me and the overall tone dragged down all the other moments for me... I'm not saying everyone has to agree with me, and I'm not attacking what you think of it, I'm only sharing what I feel, it doesn't lessen anyone elses pov, good or bad... Sometimes movies just don't agree with us as people, but just because we say we dislike it doesn't mean we are putting a curse on all future movies :).

    I am only being honest about how I feel and also saying why I think I might feel that way. To me honesty is one of the core values of the muppets, and to put on a fake smile and just say that I enjoyed something I didn't would be lying :(
    . But just because I disliked one movie doesn't make my love for the movies I do like any less real : ).
     
  13. theprawncracker

    theprawncracker Well-Known Member

    I think Jamie understands that you're saying that, heralde... you're just not acknowledging the good in any sense. What I see you saying is that the movies were terrible and should never be viewed for any reason. :smirk:
     
  14. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I'm just sharing my own feelings. And I've said many times that I thought Kermit's realization at the end was nice. Just not enough for me to really want to see the movie again. I'm not telling anyone they can't have their own opinion. :)
     
  15. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I suppose that film has yet to hit me and I have seen many, many movies. I like to find where any value is even when it can be hard to see. I suppose that's learned from watching Kermit and even the Fraggles. I refuse to believe that even in the worst Muppet project that there isn't *something* that can be salvaged. That just seems unMuppety to me.

    Getting back to LTS. Do you think the script (by way of story) could have been improved if given more time?

    On one hand I didn't like the pitch of Kermit and the gang bringing kids’ letters to Santa. However, even though the title hints at that it really doesn't happen. The premise was thin and didn't quite come to fruition. I mean, it had a beginning middle and an end and Santa got the girl's letter but it was more a letteR than letterS. It's kind of nit-picky and I overlook that for the other wonderful Muppety goodness. Also I haven't seen Kermit-Gonzo-Fozzie camaraderie like that since GMC! I really want to see the extended cut on DVD!
     
  16. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Just because you don't like a movie doesn't mean you're not open to things. I always try to find the value in people. :)

    And I did find some value in VMX. That just doesn't lessen the bad for me. Sometimes in cases such as these, you just feel the bad needs to be protested. Justice isn't just about finding the good, but also stopping the bad. (Yes I know it's just a movie hehe)

    Not necessarily time, more like direction. The direction was sent in a way that not every fan responded to.
     
  17. Redsonga

    Redsonga Active Member

    I loved LTS but if I could add anything I think it would be to have them go more places between the time they find the letter and the time they fly to Santa. Like maybe have Fozzie say he is going to try to drive them there and go to his mothers' house to borrow a car, only to have his ma try to drag them all in to have dinner...and maybe once they say they need to get to Santa she says something about what happened the last time he borrowed a family car and slams the door, leaving them buried in snow..and then Pepe remarking how they wouldn't be able to drive over the ocean anyway *hee*
    I know, I know, silly :).
     
  18. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I agree, there should have been something more between the North Pole and arriving home. I think that's what was missing. I would have loved to see the joke of having the Mayhem playing a gig out in the middle of the snow somewhere. I miss those guys.
     
  19. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Yeah I mean. some reason why everyone decides to come back, that would have made it more touching if the special had been longer. :)
     
  20. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    So am I the only one who *didn't* think that Letters to Santa was too short? I feel that if it had gone on much longer we'd have at some point realised that the Muppets were delivering letters to Santa. As it was, it went by really fast and we had several options followed like the pigeons and the Mob...and it was funny, but quick. And so we never had a chance to be cynical. And I loved that about this movie. I think if it had been longer, they'd have had to rethink a lot of things, and possible not shown Santa at the end I think.
     


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