Goths, Punks, Freaks, and Muppets - Is it all Very Wrong?

[frogboy4]

I think some of you are going way overboard. There are many things to choose from these days - no clear style. Anything goes and nothing's off limits. That's the point. It isn't that anything is really a retread - it's about individuality and personal taste.

Can't stand all this judgment. It really is ludicrous. Do what you want. Who the heck cares who wears what and why? What makes everyone a self-appointed critic of other people's personal style these days? Now that's truly what is retro in these times. The only people dictating what others should wear or not seem to be on this thread. LOL!

 

[beaker]

>>>The only people dictating what others should wear or not seem to be on this thread. LOL!<<<

Um, well in real life...it would be corporatations and MTV and magazines dictating what people read. Were talking about a culture we live in where reality shows and American Idol are
the new evangelical must see tv.

Its not judgement, its seeing wiht clarity how everything is do devoid of art or true individuality. Then again, for the average sheep minded young person, Hot Topic conveinently packages 'indviduality' for $69.99 MSRP...a punk patch ridden army coat and zipper plaid suspender hanging pants.

These days Jamie, 'individuality' is prepackaged and more akin to 'faux individuality'.

 

[frogboy4]

You are too young to be that cynical. I think you're looking to hard for things to dislike. I hang out with all sorts of people and there are "phonies" in every sort of group. I just don’t get all Holden Caulfield on it. Live and let be - there's no need to judge others for the clothing they wear and it's presumptuous to assume an individual's motives. We really don't know.

 

[beaker]

>>>I just don’t get all Holden Caulfield on it. Live and let be - there's no need to judge others for the clothing they wear and it's presumptuous to assume an individual's motives. We really don't know<<<

Nice Salinger reference there...well Jamie, sometimes a misantrhopic view of things is needed. From what you say, you really have no comprehension of how lame some of these trends are?

Anyways, perhaps it's because I hardly have any people I hang out with...the few people I hang out with actually *get* my sense of strange 3am humour, so that tells you how irreverently anti social in climate my views about pop life in America can be.

But still, it doesnt take a doctorate in hip youth trends to realize how sad everything is. Ack, but then again you live in sf...where everybody is on a 'im an individual!' green haired alterna kick.
Hey I go there a lot...I know how the good will thrift shops in sf
are more like trendy mall stores, and where the Gap waering people are considered the freaks.

 

[frogboy4]

<<Hey I go there a lot...I know how the good will thrift shops in sf are more like trendy mall stores, and where the Gap waering people are considered the freaks.>>

That is so not true. The Gap is actually big here - Gap Corporate has their headquarters here and I know people who totally live that fad. They get some ribbing from me just as my overly tattooed friends to, but it really is anything goes. I think you may have a distorted view. Just as much Gap folks and Punk kids. I think you are looking too far from the outside on this. I used to be kind of like that when I was a teenager, but I dropped al that and got into the game. You set your own rules. I'm a T-shirt and jeans sort of guy, but I don't mind others. Sometimes it does seem that the non-conformists are all alike! LOL! It also seems that the ones judging them are too, but who are we to judge the minds and hearts of others?

 

[beaker]

>>>Sometimes it does seem that the non-conformists are all alike! LOL! It also seems that the ones judging them are too, but who are we to judge the minds and hearts of others?<<<

Well sf is different tho, way different than most of California and the US...I mean the thrift sotres really are like high priced trendy mall stores, and where else will you see huge billboards that advertise all kinds of inuendo and various ill begotten stuff.

Now then, distorted view? And the whole judgement thing...goodness. Listen, for years Ive gone to some of the most freak ridden concerts and clubs in sf! I go for the music, but if ya think youre friends are eclectic or out there dress wise...you go to the DNA Lounge on Harrison on a Friday night and tell me it doesnt make your pals look like corporate Gap patrons

But...the way I see this new 'individualism'(ie: the loop earrings and piercings all over, the tattooes, the hair, etc) is its become to the point where its anti individual, and defeats the whole purpose. ITs become the new mainstream, in where whats the point? Its almost more individualitic to not get piercings and tattoes and crazy hairstyles. Ive been going to sf all my life, and have enjoyed seeing how art and fashion and thing shave changed...though some things in sf never change(ie: crusty punk youth pan handling ya for some change)

 

[frogboy4]

I tend agree with some of what you said but who the heck are any of us to judge? I don't understand what going to DNA Lounge (Hole in the Wall, Reform School or Mass for that matter) has to do with not judging others, but go for it. I'm more of an Uncle Berts sort myself. Like to keep it simple these days.

I hang with all sorts of people - even you are trying it box my friends and me without knowing us. Just plain silly. From Goths and punks to skaters and Gap clad folks - I hang out with them all and there really is little difference between any of them. The only prejudice I have is against the negative sort. Mean people suck.

 

[MuppetQuilter]

A few comments on generations and trends

Sorry about this, but I am a sociologist:

Decades do not take shape in the first two years. Find a high school year book from 1982 and it will look like the 70s. What we know as the 60s didn't really get started until about '64. The 90s are just coming to an end. So, no, this decade does not have a cohesive, identifiable fashion or political identity (not that any decade is half as cohesive as we like to think it was) but give it time. In ten years we will have no problem labeling this decade.

People cannot all be original all the time. Most of us buy mass produced clothing, so we're guranteed to have others dress like we do. Nothing wrong with that. There have always been conventions and rules surrounding fashion. Yes, the fashion industry-- particularly when aimed at teens and young adults-- is ruled by MTV and movies and yes that is limiting and annoying sometimes. But the 80s weren't exactly a time of free expression. Preps had fits about whether the pennys in their loafers were right side up or upside down (anyone wana talk about trivial fashion rules?!) and the punk thing was a total rip off of one side of the late 70s British rock scene. You think middle class suburban kids turned to punk for the same reasons it came out of England ten years earlier?

Yes, we all make judgements. But we do have control over what we do with them and how we deal with them. Humans are capable of growth and change. Most of us go through a bit of a Holden Caulfield stage. Nothing wrong with that. But hopefully we move past it. Holden wasn't exactly the happiest guy around, as I recall.

What I am trying to say is, we should all just chill out. I don't think anyone is mad at anyone. I don't think this thread is out of hand. I do think, if we want the Muppets to be more visible, we have to expect that some people will do stuff with Muppet merchandise that we might not like. That's there right. Just as we have the right to not like it. But don't write off a generation because it hasn't found its voice, hasn't found causes to be passionate about, hasn't had time to figure out who they are. They'll get there, but they have to make some pretty awful fashion choices first (anyone here over the age of 25 not embarassed about something they wore in their teens?).

 

[Traveling Matt]

Right on, Annika.

The traditions of decades (I've noticed) take quite a number of years to gain a definition.

- Billy

 

[Cantus Rock]

Ugh, leave it to the sociologist to kill the mood of a thread...) hehe, I kid..)

You make some very excellent points Ms. Quilter. Its good we have insight like yours here.

-Matt