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TMS Season 2 Box Set - 2007 Release?

Discussion in 'Muppet Merchandise' started by MustangRockstar, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Allow me to applaud the post above me.
  2. crazed gonzo fa

    crazed gonzo fa Active Member

    Some good things can't last forever:cry: . Kids wanting to watch Family Guy?:rolleyes: And I quote: I think I'm going to be violently ill...(Beau and Prawncracker ziffled me) You got a good point Prawncracker.
  3. Marky

    Marky Member

    Actually, I think you've just proven my point! But to be fair, what films/shows do you show people to try to get them into the Muppets?

    I feel 'The Muppets' work better when they're not necessarily attempting to target 'childen'. It been well-documented (and is obvious to its fans) that the original series was not aimed at kids. It was simply made to make people laugh and/or trip out. Henson already had Sesame Street for the kids (which, btw, was better when he was around, too).

    Now... IAVMMCM is, IMO, a great piece of evidence for my "Disney Killed the Muppets" disposition. It wasn't made that long ago (right before the Dis-deal I believe). IAVMMCM was aimed primarily at us Gen-Xers first who like their 'wholesome' entertainment to be genuinely funny. It was rated PG, not G. It was both an exercise in nostagia and a test-marketing on NBC's behalf. Joan Cusak was brilliant in it, and their was some great wit in the writing. It did not seem like it was written by a focus group. It was snappy and irreverant. It had chases, cartoonish violence, adult innuendos, everything that Disney has bled them dry of. (I also appreciated the dreaded Clifford's abscence).

    Now the worst Muppet material I have ever seen by far are those terrible Pepe Profiles. There is no spark there at all. They have that trite, Disnified feeling to it, which is what killed Oz for me as well.
  4. crazed gonzo fa

    crazed gonzo fa Active Member

    Ms. Bittermen: You know, not everything I say is an innuendo.
  5. Marky

    Marky Member

    ...oiling your chair...
  6. Teheheman

    Teheheman Well-Known Member

    It's true. They were better before Disney bought them because they weren't trying to aim it towards kids. Now, they are trying to aim it towards tweenagers who are basically Disney's bread-n-butter. I think that Family Guy, with all the references to the Muppets, might give them a little more of a pop culture comeback because you'll see a lot of teens buying the Muppets because they saw Kermit on Family Guy(I know it might not happen, but who knows? It could work.) BTW, the point that was made about the Muppet Show DVD? If they were really worried about it, they would have put it out on DVD when they said they were going to, and not push it back 3 or 4 times. The Simpsons and Family Guy get on DVD when they're supposed to. Other Disney projects get on DVD when they're supposed to, and they are of high quality, why can't Season 2 of the Muppets? If they keep dragging their feet on this, they'll never release it.

    Daniel
  7. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Active Member

    Well really I try to show almost anything Muppets, mostly the movies, everything from "The Muppet Movie" to "The Muppet Wizard of Oz, I do agree that a lot of the DVDs the kids want to wacth from my collection (Family Guy and such) aren't really shows that kids should be wacthing, which is way (going back to my earlier statement.), I go ahead and show them some Disney Pixar movies, instead.

    I do agree with you Marky that IAVMMCM was a better Muppet film than say, Muppets Wizard of Oz, but still it's not like it made the Muppets into the huge stars they were in the 70's and 80's.

    I do also think Prawncracker made a good statement.

    I don't know why everyone here is thinking that Disney won't release TMS season 2. Season one was a huge seller, there is money to be made. Disney is a bussiness, first and formost. Think about it for a moment,please, why in the world would they spend all the money that they did for the rights to the Muppets and the Muppet library and do nothing with it. When Micheal Jackson bought the rights to the Beatles songs, he didn't just sit on it, nope he made millions selling thoes songs to commericals and "best of" cds and all that good stuff. Disney will do the same, there is no way they would spend all the money they did on the Muppets and do nothing with them.

    Maybe Disney is taking longer with the Muppet Show season two, because this time it will be uncut episodes. Did anyone think about that?
  8. Bear Man

    Bear Man Member

    You're judging Disney on what exactly? One DVD release, another delayed one and Muppets Wizard of Oz, and from that you're claiming they've ruined them and are never going to do anything good, ever, ever again. Please commence the wailing and gnashing of teeth now.

    It annoys me more than I can articulate the tendancy to criticise big corporations, simply because they have the gall to have been successful in creating a brand. McDonalds? The sole reason the world is so fat. Microsoft? Pure evil intent on global domination. Disney? Souless and uncreative. The fact is, that as companies become successful they grow. If they don't grow, they aren't able to continue to innovate, to continue to produce goods and services - they aren't able to meet the increased demand that is created through their previous successes, and therefore they fail and go under.

    It's not as if there was huge demand for Muppet productions before Disney bought them, and I would almost guarantee that had Disney not acquired them, they would have even less visability than they do now. Step outside of your little closed fan community and see exactly what the demand is for Muppets in the outside world - it is not that popular. But, of course, Disney should take a loss on a DVD set by releasing it when the few fans want it, instead of taking time to develop a proper marketing strategy and hopefully have at least some mild success.

    You know what? I couldn't get all the way through Muppets Wizard of Oz - didn't like it much, and yeah, that Christmas special was better (although not by that much). But you're judging Disney on ONE production in two years? Come on! How much Muppet rubbish appeared BEFORE Disney bought them? Muppets from Space was terrible, Muppet Christmas Carol was more dripping in Disney-fied sugar than Oz was, Muppets Tonight flopped like a bad pancake...I could go on and on. There were periods under Henson and the German owners (whose name escapes me currently) where the Muppets were under-used, or completely silent, and for a good time longer than two years (and let's not forget that in the two years Disney has owned them, we have one original series DVD set, a new TV movie, and a commitment to providing high-end collectibles).

    Bein Green is right - it is what the Muppets stand for that is no longer popular in mainstream entertainment, and the way forward that I see is the "retro" market. Marky - Disney has been responsible for quite a lot of "hip" franchises recently (although I think if anything is described as "hip" these days it's a fairly good indication that it's not!), and to say the Muppets aren't "hip" because of Disney is ridiculous. It takes years to create a brand, and even longer to re-create a brand that has been allowed to stagnate and not evolve with the times. The blame for THAT mistake cannot be placed with Disney. Sure, there were attempts by JHC (Muppets Tonight, for example), but the focus on Sesame Street and child-focussed, family-friendly Muppet films in the intervening years between the original Muppet Show and the attempt to update positioned Kermit and co. in the wrong place in the eyes of the public. Give Disney a chance - see if they can be succesful in it, and be prepared to see some failures.

    I will give you this - the unfortunate thing is that, because of the culture we live in now, and because companies like Disney have huge responsibilities to shareholders, there is less freedom to experiment than in the past, failures are not tolerated, and if a property like the Muppets start to be seen as a failure, it is more likely to be discarded than have huge amounts of money thrown at it to see if they can make it successful. That's not Disney's fault though, that is a simple fact of life.

    And for those that think the Muppets would be better off if they were still with the Jim Henson company, let's not forget that they've sold them off twice now...it seems to me that they don't want to be throwing money at a property that is probably past its prime...
  9. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Active Member

    I have to agree with Bear Man there.

    A lot of fans here are just really upset that the Muppets are no longer with the JHC (believe me, I think that's a bummer too.). But as Bear Man said, Disney should be given more of a chance that what a lot of the fans here are giving them. It is going to take time, that should go without saying. Bein Green is also right that in "today's world" the Muppets just aren't as popular, like I stated about trying to get some kids into it.

    In fact I remember I was wacthing this little four year old boy (or somewhere around that age) and he was looking for some toys to play with, I try to give him a little Kermit toy and he said "I think he's dumb" I was bummed out about that, almost heart broken.
  10. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    ...decorate your tree...
  11. Bear Man has hit the nail on the head! In the real world The Muppets might be popular but they are popular with the kind of people who laugh at them while they're on TV but wouldn't dream of spending money on any kind of Muppet merch. Of all the stuff the Jim Henson has done, how much of it has actually been released at all? Very little. How many times have complete seasons of a show been released? Only since the last few years. The Muppets have been around since 1955 and it's only now that anything major is being released.
    Also, as I have said before and many people have agreed, Disney would not have bought The Muppets just to leave them in storage. If Disney think they can make money out of something, they will. They would not be the size they are without knowing how to make money. I think they also realise that, while releasing new Muppet programs would be easier, the fans don't actually want new Muppet stuff. That's why it seems that they are merely sitting on the Muppet franchise. What are they supposed to do? Release old material that takes time to aquire the copyright for and have the fans complain that they are taking too long, or release new TV or movies and have the fans complain that it's not as good as The Muppets used to be?
    The top and bottom is, Disney's release of TMS DVD season one is the best single Muppet DVD release yet. Great sound, picture and special features. If the second season is as good, even with a few edits, we will be laughing!
  12. giovannii

    giovannii New Member


    NEw Muppet material would be fantastic as well provided it is done right.

    IF they re-created the show in its original format in the muppet theatre with kermit hosting and with Pigs In Space, Vets Hospital etc, I think it would do a lot better than "Muppets Tonight".

    "Muppets Tonight" failed because it was so un-muppet show like.
  13. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Remember that Disney is running a very thin line, they know that the Muppets have a dedicated fan-base who will scream like crazy if they set a foot (flipper?) wrong in creating a new production...the way we all did after VMC and Mwoo...they also know that we will be complaining if they do not release a new production...

    There's the fine line. They need a new production that will meet with full approval of the established Muppet Fandom, while appealing to a new audience...frankly the Muppets need a complete over-haul, without being changed at all. They need RE-introducing. We know who Kermit is and why, who Piggy is and why she chases the frog, how Robin is related and why there is an ancient bus with records stuck on the ceiling...but do others? Somewhere inside them, they do...but not really.

    The X-men movies worked brilliantly because the producers came at them without the preconception that the audience new exactly who those X-men were...everything was re-explained, characters where re-introduced in an orderly and awesome fashion.

    There was plenty of complaints that Gambit wasn't in the movies, or that such-and-such was wrong and so-and-so was absent...but on the other hand, it brought the franchise back to life. Do the Muppets need the same treatment?
  14. giovannii

    giovannii New Member

    Yeah a Muppet movie which spends the first 15-20 mins introducing the original principle characters: Kermit, Piggy, Scooter, Fozzie, Gonzo & the electric mayhem. Some other faves Swedish Chef, BEaker & Bunsen. Maybe throw in a few newbies like Pepe & Johnny Fiama. Re-introducing it to the kids of today would be fantastic. Even if it was a CGI puppetry sorta thing.

    John
  15. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I'm not so sure about the CGI aspect, but I'd definatly agree that the first 15 minutes of the next movie should give the Muppets some...perspective. Show who they are without just having Piggy throw clothes around, have a green face, and slam the dor on Bean Bunny.
  16. Bear Man

    Bear Man Member

    I totally agree with your assessment of the fan base and the fine line Disney has to tread - you've really nailed it there. And I also agree 100% with you that they need re-introducing...and here comes the big "but" (not Piggy walking backwards, no...)

    BUT

    You mentioned the X-Men movies - characters properly introduced, explained to the non-comic audience. It's a great analogy. Can I suggest though, two other reasons that the movies worked? Firstly, they are total special-effects blockbusters. Even people who hold no interest in the comics were interested to go and see them because of the visual stimulation and action that they promised. Can the Muppets provide that sort of thing? Is there some "hook" that could be used to bring in an audience? The only one that I can think of is an A-list star - or rather stars - in something other than a cheesey cameo, with a first-rate director behind the camera, along with a first-rate script, who approaches the film/tv series/special/whatever with a really strong concept. And to go along with that, you'd need a really strong marketing campaign. All of this adds up to a lot of money spent on something that has no guarantees. The studio's risk analysts would have coronaries.

    The second reason that the X-men franchise works is because it's part of an already proven genre. The mammoth success of Spiderman proved to the studios that they could spend massive amounts of money on a film like X-men and still have a reasonable prospect of success. It proved to the studios that people who didn't necessarily buy the comics would still see the movie. And, more importantly, it proved to AUDIENCES that they could still enjoy a comic book movie, even if they didn't read the comics themselves - or indeed have that much of an interest in the comics. And that's where we get into trouble again. Audiences currently believe that Muppets are kids stuff. They won't change that perception until they are shown something to persuade them differently. And in a terrible catch-22, they won't go to see anything that might persuade them differently because of that very prejudice.

    Mainstream tastes have changed - there's no doubt about that. Could the muppets be brought back into mainstream culture? Probably. But it would take a lot of money. And it would also involve changing some fundamental aspects of the way the characters interact with each other and the world around them...and I think that would cross the line for many of you.
  17. Marky

    Marky Member

    Remember that Disney is running a very thin line, they know that the Muppets have a dedicated fan-base who will scream like crazy if they set a foot (flipper?) wrong in creating a new production...the way we all did after VMC and Mwoo...they also know that we will be complaining if they do not release a new production...

    I really don't think Disney cares about a sqeaky-wheeld minority. THere's no cost-effectiveness there. And in their defense, I think that it's wiser for them not to care. They should just make up their minds on what they want the Muppets to be.
  18. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Active Member

    I think the Muppets never really have a problem being in mainstream culture, they pretty much always are. Sure the new material is as good, but they're still stars for the most part. I don't know, I guess once a celeb always a celeb or something.
  19. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    ... um... was it mentioned that you can vote on the season two DVD cover on Muppets.com? That was kinda cool, huh?

    But, seriously, what I wanted to post about was in response to these posts...

    Fact of the matter is, in case you didn't notice, Jim Henson is... well, dead.

    The Kermit Photo Puppet Replica is not anti-Henson in the least bit. Jim was not only an artist, but a businessman who recognized what could be gained by releasing such products. After all, there were those Rowlf and Kermit puppets released way back in the sixties. Such products allowed Jim to be a little more free with his film projects, and not under the studio's thumb.

    The Muppets, thanks to the internet, have more exposure now than ever before! Think about it, there are over thirty episodes of the WALT DISNEY PRODUCED Statler and Waldorf series on Movies.com. That's more than the last television show the Jim Henson Company tried to produce ever had, which I seem to recall never aired. Heck, that's more than Muppets Tonight had!

    Personally, yes, I agree that the Muppets have lost alot of what they used to have, but I've felt that way since LONG before Disney owned them. They are still some of the finest entertainment in existance today. Nothing, in my book, can compare with what the Muppets are.

    ... Oh, and I liked The Muppets Wizard of Oz. It made me want to work for the Muppets again. :)
  20. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Active Member

    Plus it's not "anti-Henson" in the fact that the "Kermit Replica" isn't a hand puppet.


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