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Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Fraggline, Dec 22, 2010.
Anytime. He is so adorable--looks just like the real puppet.
..man we need a link smiley!
I just have to say this: your use of language is beautiful.
Please do! I'm really impressed!
FraggiEEE Baby!!! You're on!!!
...yyes i am!
I honestly don't even think that's an entirely correct label for Muppet Show Scooter. That's still more Muppet Baby Scooter. Muppet Show Scooter was the young kid anxious to get into show business by any means necessary, including using his uncle as a reference, and even if it meant starting at the bottom as a go-fer.
Gonna get a bit of flak for this but... First season Zoot and Janice.
This is mostly based on the At the Dance Sketches, where we generally got to see a much more snarky and assertive Zoot before he became a silent character.
The fact that they were the most amorous couple in the sketches (if you see them dance in the background, Zoot gets rather cuddly with Janice) coupled with some of their lines (The "Do you love me forever?" exchange being the best one.), and that they were paired up with each other during performances given that Floyd was usually the singer had me convinced they were an item when I first started watching the Muppet Show.
I honestly think that Zoot lost a bit of his character without Janice or even Floyd to bounce off from.
But that doesn't mean I don't melt into a mushy puddle when Floyd and Janice are being sweet together. Honestly, they're the best couple in the show.
The penultimate Act Naturally, the fact that Floyd yells at Gonzo for yelling at Janice in Muppets take Manhattan, the cuddling during the John Denver special, any instances of them calling each other pet names, and anytime they duet together just brings a smile on my face.
As for Fraggles, definitely Boober and Mokey.
Boober kissing Mokey during the Muppet Christmas Special, Mokey kissing Boober in You Can't Do That Without a Hat, him rowing the boat and confessing that he loves listening to her poetry in Mokey's Funeral, and many instances where he's latched onto Mokey makes the pairing adorable.
And of course, there's Red and Gobo, but it was obvious that Red had a crush on him.
I think Red singing Dreaming of Someone's my fav part (haven't seen all the episodes) because it feels that she's a bit jealous that Gobo prefers Mokey's quieter nature than her tomboyish energetic one.
You will get no flack from me, as I do agree with you to an extent. I'm not complaining too much about the switch because Janice x Floyd are my OTP, but Zoot and Janice were great too, and sometimes I wonder what would have happened had that role continued.
I agree--your use of language is lovely. But, I want to add a comment or two and make cautionary statement about assuming things about characters based on what we know about the actor. Often, fans think they know an actor because they know so much about a character, but, as Miss Piggy would say, "It's called acting, sweetie!" (Famous example: David Duchovny is a total non-believer in the supernatural.) A good actor can be convincing in any role if they take the time necessary to prepare their understanding of the character. I know that Richard was gay--yes--but that doesn't necessarily mean that Scooter is, too. (It doesn't necessarily mean that he's not, either.) It is insulting to actors and to gay people to suggest that only a gay person could play a gay character, or only a straight person could play a straight person. As Beaker said above, Richard's characterization of Beaker was VERY different from even what Richard was like. Whatever Richard's intentions about Scooter, they were not portrayed openly enough to be conclusive about his sexual identity.
Also, since Scooter's, um, handler has changed, you have to look at the whole history of his behavior--not just who the character was when Richard was portraying him. In IAVMMC, Scooter is obviously trying to chat up the unimpressed chorus girls (with a lampshade on his head, no less.) It is implied that he is slightly tipsy (lampshade) so one can assume he's acting in a somewhat more uninhibited way than normal. However, later in the Kermitless world, Scooter is portrayed as a sexy (well...sortof) cage dancer. Though I have heard some say that this was an obvious reference to Scooter's orientation, I don't see it. (And what are we saying if it is--that Scooter would have been gay if Kermit had never been born? That makes no sense.) I thought (and think) it was simply a reference to the way the muppets had become victimized and morally corrupted (doing whatever necessary to make a living) by never having the positive influence of Kermit and his wholesomeness.
I always admired George Takei for not trying to commandeer the character of Sulu once George came out of the closet. Sulu was obviously heterosexual. George is openly gay. But George went out of his way to be true to the character that he once portrayed instead of trying to say, "Oh, well, I was gay portraying Sulu so Sulu must have been secretly gay all that time." George made a distinction between who HE was playing a role and the character that he portrayed, which is what a skilled actor does. Is is considered an insult to say about an actor, "Oh--he always plays himself." It implys that there is no acting skill involved--just showing up.
Last little quibble: I am going to take issue just a smidge with the comment that "Richard's sexual orientation was a deep part of his identity." Neither gays nor straights can claim that their sexual identity is more a part of their identity than the other group--to suggest other wise is to suggest that one group has a superior right or claim which is, itself, a biased attitude.
What I always loved about Richard's characters was their sweetness and openness to life, and that legacy will remain long after Richard has left us.
That's true, I think we all do that at times. Characters can certainly be influenced by the actors playing them, but that doesn't mean they're twins.
Certainly, if you study Hollywood history, a great many gay actors were able to play straight characters very convincingly, with the public having no idea for years. And then you have actors like Tom Hanks portraying gay characters very respectfully. As you said, it's called acting!
As far as I'm concerned, that nightmare inducing special never happened. Whether it's Scooter flirting with the girls or the cage dancing scene, none of it ever happened! Problem solved, lol.
I love Kermit's concern about Piggy and Robin's concern about both of them in Muppet Family Christmas. I think this special shows Kermit and Piggy at their best--affectionate, sweet and very much attached to each other. Kermit and Piggy snuggling on the couch at the end never fails to make me happy.
yeah, they're basically a couple in this movie
There is Kermit's happy, goofy, self-satisfied smile and he holds her hand while they walk to the house. "Yep--that's MY GIRL there that just made that stunning entrance! Lucky me, huh?" The way they exchange kisses on the couch--and Kermit doesn't even squirm like an eight-year-old (like he does on the Disney bumper, the execrable Walgreen's singing thing and on A Red and Green Christmas Album). You can see, I think, why a mature, non-childish, non-fat-joke Kermit--which was what we got when Jim was with us--is what old-timers like me consider to be normal. While Kermit might not be rushing out to buy a house with a picket fence, his affection was genuine and visible to everyone who cared about him. He put thought into his present for Piggy and was delighted when she finally joined them all at the farm house. I've only recently begun to see THAT frog again after all this time--not the 14-year-old masquerading as a grown-up version of Kermit that they kept trying to shove on us.
And I will tell you something else, guys--woman find men who commit very likeable. I don't mean, women find men who commit to them likeable--I mean, ladies like a man not afraid to stake his claim and declare himself. THAT's the Kermit I admire and love. (And the guy washing dishes in the zebra-print coat isn't too bad, either!)
My favorite romantic Muppet moment is Kermit and Piggy doing 'Love Led Us Here' in MTI. I can hardly put into word how full of love and feeling I find that moment, but I shall try:
Its got both of them repenting, its got a crying Piggy, Kermit trying to cheer her up and then they sing together and all is forgiven as they prepare to fall to their deaths as 'heaven seems so near', and they're rescued now having made up and realizing their love for each other that had never died <3 (perhaps that love even saved them )
Yes we do need a Link smiley!! It would look great next to a proud/smug remark...LOL! And yes, I will work on posting a full picture of my Link drawing. I need to consult my computer savvy brother for this one...hee hee.
Hmm... my fav "romantic" Muppet moment is from Muppets at Disney World where Gonzo sings "Love in a Laundromat" to Camilla. I loved that special as a kid, and the song was pretty good.
"Camilla! You're sweeter than wine or vanilla, Camilla."
Okay, the Big Bird thing kind of ruined the moment, and I don't think that Gonzo/Camilla is exactly a romance for the ages anyway, but I sure do like that song.
has fozzie ever had a love interest?
Have you seen the Raquel Welch episode? Hehe
yeah, but other than that, i mean- gonzo has camilla at least, floyd has janice, kermit and piggy of course...it just seems with fozzie being one of the big four and all they should have given him somebody over the years
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