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Deja vu all over again

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by newsmanfan, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. newsmanfan

    newsmanfan Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I blame it all on the Calvinists. "Being rich shows everyone that you're one of God's Elect"...and that BS philosophy has simply carried on down generations and been further twisted into making unadulterated greed a social goal for many. Shouldn't the "good life" be about having what you NEED...and then being able to give to those who don't have? The Repubs throw around "socialism" like McCarthy's still in Congress! The worst part is they've got the general populace thinking that real, benevolent, RATIONAL socialism (NOT the corrupt systems practiced in Eastern Bloc nations) is a BAD thing. Hardly!

    Psst...that guy you all claim to worship, that you call your Christ? He was a SOCIALIST...idiots. Not to diss religion here, but it infuriates me that many (no, not all) of the worst capitalist offenders would identify themselves as "Christian" when they clearly follow NONE of the philosophy expounded by that teacher!

    The system is not going to change until we put forth more role models as philanthropists. Kids who think having the five Jags in the garage and unlimited charge accounts is the penultimate social ranking need to be shown how one can have a comfortable living WITHOUT running over everyone else. Gordon Geckos, indeed.

  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    "My temple should be a house of prayer, but you've made it a den of thieves."
    newsmanfan likes this.
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    It's not even socialism. Though we do have our fair share of corporate socialism. How comes it's so horribly unAmerican to make a set of rules and regulations that get corporations and investors to play buy a set of fair rules so that it can mutually benefit them AND the poorer class who rely on them for work and services? Every president since Reagan, EVEN Clinton deregulated things more and more so these companies can do whatever they want, get huge tax breaks and favors for NOT doing what they should be doing in the first place, and then dragging the entire country down with them when they make the inevitable horrifying mistake.

    If this wasn't so horrible, I'd laugh. It again, proves the right WRONG about another thing. The Job creators really aren't. They're getting the same subsidies that they're denying the FAA that actually CREATE jobs that they give to the oil industry that's running at less than 80% capacity and creating a phoney crisis to please stock holders and their greedy CEO's.

    I can't say I blindly trust government, but compared to Big Big Big fat business, they're saints. Worst thing that happens in politics, someone doesn't get re-elected if they screw up. In business, there are multiple scenarios...

    1) if the screw up plays in the favor of the stock holders, nothing....

    2) if it winds up displeasing the stock holders, they PR fire the CEO (PR fire: to "leave of their own volition"), and the CEO gets a nice golden parachute. Basically rewarding a screw up. Another CEO who does the same thing or worse gets hired and the cycle starts all over again.

    3) the screw up is so bad the company gets taken down, there's talk of testifying before congress, but the CEO's escape and hand out bonuses to everyone that helped them cheat the system, throw everyone else under the train, and get away scott free while the slightly higher than minimum wage employees suffer the fates THEY were supposed to face.

    Either way, bonuses are given out to people with obscenely high pay to begin with to reward them for doing bad things, and they get Uncle Sam's helping hand while Social Security and Medicare are "entitlements." No one wants this to happen, but no one wants to do anything about it.
  4. newsmanfan

    newsmanfan Well-Known Member

    Well, we COULD revolt....This is why I don't have a problem with white-hat hackers!

  5. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I read something on the NYTimes website today that truly blew my mind regarding the often warring "conservative" and "progressive" points of view:

    Wow. Think about that. ;)
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Thanks to John "Crybaby" Boehner (and everyone else for not giving him exactly what he wanted when he threw a temper tantrum in the store), we ARE getting a credit limit default downgrade ANYWAY, and we're all going to suffer.

    I want a recall election. This is the WORST speaker of the House I've ever seen. Even Newt "dumps his wife on her cancer sick bed to have fun with floozies" Gingrich wasn't this bad. There is no reason why the entire country should suffer because of some dope listening to the ranting ravings of a lunatic fringe that's roughly 20% of the country, just so he could get their selfish spoiled brat votes. Seriously? What was the big evil Nancy Pelosi agenda again? Certainly wasn't driving the country into a red hot fire to make a politician fail so she could get her buddies in.

    All because the rich didn't want a tax cut. Egad... how greedy and stupid are these idiot CEOs? You're willing to destroy the economy so you can get a little extra scratch? I can't wait to see the market crash for the 10th time because of that on Monday so we can go back into a recession created by the wealthy that we'll never ever be able to get out of.
  7. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    We have been putting too much faith and confidence into these politicans on both sides. Their only concern is to keep their own side in power, and point the figure at the other side. Even if it means the country crumbles around them. They have the money; they don't have to care. And it's our own fault because our loyalties have been more wrapped up in our party affiliations than in our actual country.
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    They should care, if the country crumbles all around them, guess who's not getting re-elected. Still, the Dems had the right idea... tax the gluttonous CEO's to pay for the drunken debauchery of the last guy. I think we could have survivived with tax hikes AND painful cuts... 75% of the country and the Dems thought so, but we have to listen to less than 20% of the country who desperately WANT a huge catastrophe because they're crazy enough to think that would bring change when... let's face it, NO ONE learns from catastrophe. We didn't learn from the S&L's, we didn't learn from Enron, we didn't learn from Bernie Madoff...

    Still, the country actually got the message in two cases... ONE, that a divided congress is dangerous to the country and not even the president can sort that stuff out, and two, that the tea party IS lunatic fringe territory and completely out of step with what the majority of Americans want.

    Still politicians are weak, pathetic underlings compared to big corporations. Even if they did give us any change, the corporations would send down their snotty little maggot lobbyists, and they'd get away with more plundering and pillaging. Look at what happened to the weak regulation bill that came out of the bail out.
  9. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    We have never given either side any indication that that they won't get re-elected. Very much the contrary!

    No matter how many times both sides screw up, the American people still elect them into power. Party #1 screws up, bring in Party #2. Party #2 screws up, back to Party #1.

    We can say "guess who's not getting re-elected," but we know (and they know) it's an empty threat. Which is why nothing changes.
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I don't mean Party... I mean politician. Plus, let's be honest. Certain media outlets favor certain parties and say that when they're screwing up, they're actually doing the greatest thing ever (also known as 2000-2008).

    What REALLY gets me about Sub-Standards and Keep everyone Poor's Credit downgrade, and you're gonna laugh... S&P REFUSED to warn us about Sub-prime mortgages and hedge fund managers and all that stuff that destroyed out economy in 2007. Something tells me they WANT us to destroy our economy. They get their money either way.

    Somehow I wish we could've made a backdoor deal with that IMF chairman that was framed for assaulting that hotel maid (she kept changing the story), and let him keep his job in exchange for fiscal protection. Dishonest, yes... but we're going to get freaking soaked Monday, leading us into the "double Dip" recession that the hedge fund managers keep willing into existence... though, to be honest, it will be more like our Double-dodeca Dip, since we've dipped like a million times since the recession was "over."

    Recession and companies making record profits... that's not suspicious at all.
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if there's a difference in the result. ;)
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Party can dump politician and go for someone who they claim is different, politican wants to keep his job. There's the difference there.

    Still, these rich people and investards keep dropping us in the hole, but they refuse to help to dig us out. Unlike any politician out there, they have absolutely no liabilities and can do whatever they want. THEY are the ones that are manipulating the system so they get the highest tax breaks... they're the ones that are supposed to create jobs (but investards REWARD these companies for layoffs and moving over seas).

    What REALLY honks me off about these people is everytime the US has gotten back on its feet just a little, we go back in the hole for dots on the map like Greece because everyone's too stupid to realize it's a WORLD WIDE recession, and all reasons for every country is different... Japan's economy pre-Earthquake was terrible because their money is too strong (TOO STRONG!)... Why should we continue to suffer recessions because of Greece's BAD leadership when we've just recovered from OUR bad leadership. Every country should forgive every other countries debt. Just hit the reset button, start us anew and EVERYTHING will be better!

    Still, get us the FRAG out of the Middle Freaking East! That's a no win no matter what. Get Russia to come in and build large oppressive walls in between all these countries like we did in WW2. Just... really, trillions of dollars down the drain, we didn't find weapons, we didn't stop hate groups, we didn't get oil, we didn't assert our world standing (if anything, it diminished), we got 2 useless boogiemen (Saddam and Osama) that the US pretty much helped into power... just leave, get huge walls built, and put the money back where it came from.

    Oh... and do whatever it takes to ruin the credibility of the S&P... they HAVE none.
  13. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well I would agree except that there are far too many individual politicans who all too frequently (and bizarrely) shoot themselves in the foot. :p

    At this point, I'd agree with leaving Afghanistan since very little is being accomplished. However, it will not be a happy day since we will be leaving so many human beings to cruel, oppressive fates while we enjoy our little bubble of prosperity (even during a recession we're still ten times luckier than they ever will be, and not because we particularly deserve it).
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Us dropping bombs on them and killing more innocent people than blood thirsty boogie men isn't going to change the hearts and minds of people who believe in barbaric ancient garbage that doesn't make sense. it was a misfire, we should STOP being the world's big brother because quite often we don't get anything in return. China is getting all the oil from these countries, not us.

    I'd love to say, let's go into Somalia and Darfur and use a magic wand that will melt all the bad guys like the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Arc, but that's a cartoonish non-reality. When we go into these places, we basically kill more innocent, and the bad guys use that to recruit more bad guys. This is a lesson we have failed to learn. We were lucky with WW2, though, quite frankly, we came up with a scary bomb and used it. Why we didn't make the Manhattan Project scientists destroy any and all traces of research and take cyanide pills to keep this from ever reaching the wrong hands is beyond me, because it took no time at all to reach the wrong hands.

    As much as I hated the idea of President Trump, he DID have one good idea. Start billing the other countries that need our help. Not for profit, just to take care of the expenses. We've been the baby sitters of Iraq since we killed the same schmuck we helped com into power. But did we have to help the fat lazy rentacop police force over there? We should've just left after that. Better yet, we should have never got in, let the people revolt and do our work for us.

    And I wouldn't exactly call us "lucky" we have so many homeless and hungry in our country, it's a joke. Almost third world stuff. Once Katrina happened, there were all these warning signs we ignored. Then the economy tanked. No one learned that lesson.
  15. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Try saying half the things you're saying here in a dictatorship nation and see how far you get.

    I won't argue about the homeless though again, compare our homeless problem to other countries...there is no comparison.
  16. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    But we shouldn't have to play big brother to the rest of the world when we can't even play big brother to our selves. Iraq's economy has completely boomed since we've been in there. Ours can't even find stability no matter how much money we throw at the rich.

    As expected, the entire world's suffering from the credit downgrading. I don't see why the world can't forgive its debts and start a clean slate, it's dragging everyone down. It would be mutually beneficial.
  17. newsmanfan

    newsmanfan Well-Known Member

    Yep, the East's natural-disaster woes destroyed markets here...yet more proof that it is indeed a GLOBAL economy. I agree we need to turn more to our own damage-control, and stop being GloboCop, unless it's sending aid and humanitarian troops to places like Somalia. (And what about Syria? And how long are we going to pretend the Saudis are nice guys??) But yes...no military action in the middle east ever changed people's opinions of us as intolerant buttinskis. Only ideology can fight dogma...and probably not even that, when the cultural errors (enslaving women and other races, tyranny of the lead sheik, no human rights to speak of) have been ingrained for literally a thousand years. I feel sorry for the folks in Afghanistan who may suffer when we go...but honestly if they won't rise up (c'mon, people, what happened to Arab Spring?) and HELP us fight the warlords and the Taliban and whatever nutcase is blowing innocents up today, we have zero chance of changing anything. It's South Vietnam all over again.

    Anyone else laughing in dismayed hysteria at Palin's announcement that she "could win if she ran in 2012"? How frickin' deluded is THAT?
  18. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    You're right, you're very right. It is on them too to change things. Some don't want to, some are too afraid, most just don't have the resources. The extremists are louder and throw their weight around with violence.
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Which really bugs me. We keep giving these favors handouts and deregulations to our companies to save our country, and when we finally get our butts out of the fire some blip on the map gets in trouble, and we're back to where we started.

    Seriously. Someone explain it to me. How do they keep justifying that these tax favors create jobs when we're losing them and companies are making record profits DESPITE the fact no one's buying anything, the unemployment is still high, and the rest of the world screwed up its own economy too? Something is WRONG here.

    And I love the completely unreliable S&P hedge fund downgrading us a billionth of a point when they basically didn't warn us about ANYTHING in 2008, and didn't sound the alarm for Greece and Spain. Maybe if the US government made up it's debt amount and cooked the books like Enron, we'd've managed to keep our AAA rating (Enron did).

    And I love the irony of the Peyote Tea party politicians complaining about the president's lack of leadership. No argument there. If he was a leader, he would have shut you losers up long ago, instead of giving in. Though, it's like a fat spoiled kid that gets whatever it wants when it cries loudly in a store, even at age 10 saying "Jeez Mom! You REALLY screwed me up, didn't you?" Hey, I thought they wanted the default and the low credit rating because then we can own slaves again or something that follows their psychotic 1800's political desires.
    newsmanfan likes this.
  20. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    When it comes down to it, the Tea Party has two parents: The Democrats and The Republicans.

    1. The Democrats belittled and scoffed at voters for not being as "smart" as they were. They wanted to fight for the working class, but they disliked working class people. Hence, many voters felt disconnected from the Democratic party.

    2. Enter the Republicans who took advantage of this dissatisfaction and played into the voters' fears and pretended to share their values.

    The result = The Tea Party was born. It was inevitable really.

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