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Traditional Animation: The Return

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Super Scooter, May 10, 2008.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    No offense, but didn't you once go on a rant about how much like a Dreamworks film it would be? Now you say it's boring? I'm confused.

    Personally, I found the movie refreshing. no pop culture jokes (though they had a thinly vailed stab at various "chefs" that slap their names on crappy food products.... cough cough Wolfgang puck... Emmerill...). And definately no cheap fart jokes.

    I say, if you're going to go for toilet humor, do it cleverly. Make it worth it. Just don't put something in their as a cheap laugh.
  2. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh Well-Known Member

    I.e. do it Animaniacs! style & not Family Guy style.
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Not even Family Guy style last season Ren and Stimpy without John K style.

    I may just break down and see Kung Fu Panda, for all the snot I'm giving it. The animation looks great, but it looks like more of the same. But I do love the character design of that Panda.
  4. wwfpooh

    wwfpooh Well-Known Member

    Who knows? It may surprise you, for all you know. :p
  5. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets Well-Known Member

    It would be a surprise if it was a surprise, but as it has already been stated here, it looks like typical Dreamworks fodder. I think Jeffrey Katzenberg who I respect and I think has done a lot of wonderful things in the career. But I believe that he said something to the tune of know he really doesn't know anyhting about animation. I'm not mad at him, but it just goes to show who places like theses are not run by creative passionate people who care abut the product and what they do as much as it's now being run by business suits and bean counters who's main concern is the bottom line..:smirk:
  6. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    It doesn't matter if a film is live action or animated it has to have an interesting story, a unique perspective, a reason for being made. Many of the animated films from DreamWorks PDI are made simply because the hot commodity of computer technology exists and famous people are willing to provide voice work for cheap.

    Brad Bird has pointed this out countless times. Don't you think Disney is itching to make an Incredibles sequel? Brad Bird wants that too, but only if he can make something that isn't simply a retread.

    Sure, glossy CG distracted the public for a while and caused many people to think less of traditional animation, but the fad is over. Studios don't think people are interested in drawn animation, but that is far from the truth. The stories from the Disney pictures weren't up to snuff and ultimately that was the nail in the coffin.

    I never liked Lilo and Stitch, but it was successful and came out the same year as their bomb Treasure Planet (which I did like). The will was and is there, but other factors have been missing and it's not the animation. Brother Bear and Home on the Range followed and sealed animation's fate. However, I still think that beautiful but stale Pocahontas and intriguing but patchy and problematic Hunchback sewed the seeds of the animation department's demise at Disney.

    Story first. Neither forms of animation should be considered fads or fashionable. They are the means to tell a story. We should get variety. Eventually people are going to get fed up with CG Space Chimps and plotless Bee Movies buzzing about and turn to a good story told in classic animation. I hope that's soon.
  7. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Well-Known Member

    Yeah you pretty much say anything I feel about it.

    Kung Fu Panda seems just as pointless as Bee Movie and as you stated it's like Dreamworks doesn't even care who does the voices as long as their already famous, I'm sorry when I say this but I think Dreamworks is to animation what Villina Ice is to music. It's just about money, no heart, no soul, don't care about the product, it's just crap, :mad:
  8. lowercasegods

    lowercasegods Well-Known Member

    First off, I LOVE your icon! Did you draw it? That's a great Scooter!

    Second up, I'm excited about Disney returning to it's 2-D animated musical fairytale roots, too! I'm a little dismayed that they're already making changes to the story because of perceived racial matters (seriously, The Frog Princess, as it was supposed to be called, was NOT a knock on the French! And I'm part French!).

    And I think Disney needs to do a LOT more fairy tales! It's what they do best. Granted, some of the renditions they've done of fairy tales have unnecessarily sanitized and sugared-up the stories from their darker origins, but at least two have turned out fantastic. Peter Pan was as good an interpretation of J.M. Barrie's original masterpiece as any I've seen. And Pinocchio actually took a convoluted and morally ambiguous serialized story and made it a coherent and lovable film. Trust me, the original story wasn't that hot.

    So anyway, as a cartoonist and a fan of fairy tales, I'm very excited to see a hand drawn animated film come out of Disney once again!
  9. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets Well-Known Member

    This is true, but the cast of Sherk after the first movie have been the highest paid "voice actors in history and it just gets more ridiculous. It like in insult to people who have devoted their whole career to the craft.:smirk::p
  10. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    Thank you! I didn't draw it, my cartooning style's a bit different from that. It's some artwork from an animated Muppet series that was pitched in 2004(?). It was called "American Mayhem," and I assume it was to have been about the Electric Mayhem while Scooter was their "road manager".

    However, I really want to draw my own Super Scooter icon eventually. Maybe, perhaps. ;)
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think Dreamworks is capable of something great if they work hard. I feel that Antz and Over the Hedge were some of the best films they made. Even the first 2 Shrek's were good.

    Panda, I'm sort of willing to give a chance, but in a summer of Indiana Jones, Speed Racer, Iron Man, Wall E and a Star Wars movie pilot for a TV show (plus, I kinda wanna see the Bleach movie in a theater on the 2 days they're showing it. I just wanna see what the hype's about), it's pretty much at the bottom of the pile.

    I love their animation, but I think they should move closer to B and C list celebrity voice actors. Look at the Incredibles. Samuel L Jackson and maybe Holly hunter are the most well known names in the film, followed by the star, Craig T Nelson, and maybe Wallace Shawn. The rest of the film was made up of various animators and writers. Bud Lucky did a remarkable job as the agent. And let's not forget Brad Bird as E.

    Whoever is playing the role should come SECOND. Writing the role should come first.

    Of course, Dreamworks DID focus on celebrity voice actors even when they were doing tradigital animation (2-D animated digitally), so there's nothing too different there.
  12. lowercasegods

    lowercasegods Well-Known Member

    I'm gonna have to look for images from this proposed show. I dig the design ethic behind it.
  13. lowercasegods

    lowercasegods Well-Known Member

    Okay, I just checked out the artwork and idea behind American Mayhem, and I'm of a mind that thinks it should have been made a reality, and the fact that it wasn't is the biggest American tragedy since the career assassination of Pee-Wee Herman. The premise was brilliant, and it was such a great idea to re-imagine these characters in a fresh concept rather than just transpose them into cartoons with nothing new added to the mix as was the case in everything post-Muppet Babies (with the exception of Dog City--very original despite being inspired by the Jim Henson Hour episode).

    But back to the topic at hand. Dreamworks does good CGI, but that's talking visually, not thematically and certainly not substantially. Character-wise, attitude-wise, and scope of vision-wise, all their films are the same. "I'm a wise-acre talking animal who farts." Just slap a different title on it and you have their next big summer release.

    Not to say 2-D wasn't growing stale before it was shelved as an outdated outlet for animation. Much as I love fairy tales and musicals, everyone from Disney to Don Bluth was doing them, and they too were becoming cookie cutter and cliche.

    We need a visionary to bring us true originality. We almost had that in Chris Sanders (Lilo and Stitch was the most original animated film of the 1990's) before Disney ganked his American Dog, gave Chris the boot, euthanized his canine, and brought it back to stale life as the upcoming Bolt. Hopefully Sander's new project blows his old Disney work out of the water, and helps Dreamworks create something new rather than just one more flatulent panda.
  14. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    I agree. I personally prefer to see the Muppets kinda stick with puppetry, but the idea for this was just fantastic, I would have liked to have seen it made.

    There were three proposed series. Did you check out the other two?

    American Mayhem
    Muppet 75
    Waiting for Kermit

    Any and all of these would have been awesome to see (and this is technically still on topic of "Traditional Animation").
  15. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    hmmm...I'm not sure how I feel about the look of the characters. Janice kinda looks like a mutated horse in my opinion. But then again, I cant give an opinion thats too harsh on still pictures alone. It would still be intersting to see the muppets animated like that though :search:

    What is it with dead people visiting people in their sleep telling them to do stuff?

    thats for sure
  16. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter Well-Known Member

    It's an old standard. The Muppets are known for doing that kinda stuff, or gently parodying them. Like with The Muppets Take Manhattan. That story's been used a lot!
  17. lowercasegods

    lowercasegods Well-Known Member

    I did check out the other ones, and they seemed pretty cool, too. But the American Mayhem one seemed like the freshest concept. I like the stylized takes on the band's designs. Have you ever see the old Muppet comic strip from the 80's written and drawn by Guy and Brad Gilchrist? That was a nice little strip with some great stylized designs as well. They definitely would have lent themselves to animation very nicely.
  18. wiley207

    wiley207 Well-Known Member

  19. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets Well-Known Member

    I actually thought that The Lion King was the perfect casting for an animated film. I also really liked the casting in Ratatouille too. I like the Incredibles because I actually didn't even know it was Samuel Jackson but I though of the character first.

    I actually thought sometime after Toy Story that 2D was actually breaking form the mold and that is was actually becoming more creative with wat they were doing.
  20. lowercasegods

    lowercasegods Well-Known Member

    I felt like Lilo and Stitch broke from the mold, but ultimately Disney wasn't comfortable with that, so their films went back to stale formula. The most revolutionary 2D animation being done primarily comes from Europe and Canada, with the exception of American animator Bill Plympton, who's a one-man animation studio and a true revolutionary.

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