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regular figures...mega sized...what about minis?

Discussion in 'Action Figures' started by beaker, Jul 29, 2002.

  1. uncleduke

    uncleduke New Member

    No, I am not all that wild about it. It has the potential to be cool, but I think that the Muppet collector can only split his toy budget so far. If they make minis, all it will do is depleate the money we would have spent on the regular figures.
    Personally, I plan on buying all of the regular sized figures.
    I will only by certain characters for the Mega-sized and Busts.
    Minis would just either get lost, or sucked into the vacuum cleaner.
    I may change my mind if they did episode specific sets, like Star Wars, Alice in Wonderland or Wizard of Oz. But I would have zero interest in them if they were just smaller versions of toys we already had.
     
  2. SuperGrover

    SuperGrover Member

    Another here who's a little less than enthused with the idea of Mini Muppet PVCs. That's why I haven't commented on them until now. Not that I hope they don't get made for the people here that obviously want them for whatever reason. Maybe if Palisades decides to make them too, they could think about changing their slogan to "Something For Everybody To Play With!"

    I just don't collect PVCs. (Aside from putting them on birthday cakes and fun things like that, I don't especially like the permanently action-posed PVCs either). Plus I already have the Muppet chess set, which includes a lovely assortment of mini Muppet PVC characters as it is. Give me a Mega Muppet any day over a Mini PVC.

    I really like the idea of the Mega Muppets. And even the busts. Both of these are fun new ideas we don't already have.

    And of course I LOVE the regular-sized 6" lineup, that has my main interest and attention right now.

    So if Minis came out, I'd probably put them off for last, unless they were something really magnifique, unique and completely out of this world.
    Or glowed in the dark. Two for the price of one. Mix & Match. Water soluble. Or came packaged inside of hollow little chocolate eggs. You know, that kind of thing. :)
     
  3. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Member

    I am very enthusiastic about the Minis. However, I do NOT want them to be miniature versions of the regular figures. That's fine for the Mega figs, as there will not be that many and making them bigger allows for more detail and more articulation. But Minis would have less articualtion (if any) and less detail and what's the point of that?

    What I like and want is something a little different added to the Muppet figures. I see the Minis as a sort of spice-- something that adds flavor and zest to the mix. There are so many possiblities here-- the Alice in Wonderland figures are one possibility, but there are tons more! This could also be a chance for Palisades to get real creative and do something new with the Muppets. I know, I know, it is a horrible offense to suggest veering away from classic TMS, but as I have said (and said and said) I would love to see what the inventive minds at Palisades come up with when allowed to run wild with the Muppets. The Mini line allows for tons of figures which means they can do different stuff and more characters.

    I'm not concerned about the spreading things too thin argument. In the 70s and early 80s there was TONS of Muppet merchandise out there. Few of us were able to buy all of it. Sure, we wish we had (I will one day own the coveted Sigma Gonzo mug!) but the stuff sold despite the fact that we didn't buy one of each. Now, I know the Muppets aren't as popular as they once were. But if Strawberry Shortcake stuff can sell today, well, I have to believe there is space in the market for three Muppet figure lines. Also, I'm willing to bet Palisades has considered this and perhaps even done a bit of market research. They are professionals, after all.

    I'm finding the Simpsons Muppet comparison increasingly problematic. Simpsons is a current show, true its popularity isn't what it once was. TMS has been off the air for about 20 years. The Muppets are nostalgia. They are icons. Bart may get there someday, but he just hasn't been around long enough to truly reach icon status. (Sorry, that's how I feel) I think the lines appeal to some of the same people, but I also think there are a lot of differences. I can tell you my mother would NEVER purchase a Simpson figure and she is excited about the Muppet line. She teaches elementary school and she does not allow her students to bring any Simpson merchandise to school but she plans to keep some Muppet figures on her desk. She won't let her kids wear Simpsons t-shirts, but she shows TMS episodes to her class as a reward for good behavior. I think the Muppet line has a lot of possiblities that the Simpsons do not have (and I'm sure Simpsons have some that aren't open to the Muppets). Just think we're comparing apples and comquats here and it ain't apt.
     
  4. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Well, I think some may be saying they wouldnt buy the minis because 1) It wasnt officially announced, and since megas were officially announced, well then thats ok to say your fully behind them ...and 2) some may be getting confused with the old paradigm of 'PVC'...Playmates has set the standard with the simpsons minis, and I can just imagine what Palisades would do to raise the bar on those.

    Its too bad some collectors wouldnt be interested in TMS minis...to me they are a million times more interesting than a few megas, and even more interesting to me than the 6" line as far as who could be released and other possibilities.

    So I think a lot of people have the old 'PVC' thing in mind when they say they would buy them or be interested. Of course these same people probably havent seen the Simpsons minis in eprson at stores...if they did, they could just begin to imagine how cool TMS ones would be.

    As for the Simpsons Muppets debate. Simpsons to me doesnt hold a candle to the Muppets. From the late 80's(yes, I said late 80's) til much of the 90's I was a huge Simpsons fan. But with a combination of an ever decreasing since of wit and idea(why do you think theres the injoke of comic guy saying 'worst episode ever?') and other stuff my interest has waned quite a bit. I mean we dont even have a Simpsons movie a decade and a half later.

    Everyone knows the Simpsons hey day was 1990 as far as hype...and the gap left by the muppets in the early 90's til now has been filled by the Simpsons. But now...
    i mean muppets is a global thing, its hard to see simpsons being appreciated by non ultra western pop culure countries...so I think that the Muppets shoul dbe poised to rise again.

    Theres shouldnt be a Simpsons Muppet comparrison, as The Simpsons cannot compare to the greatness of the Muppets in any stretch of th eimagination. Comparing merchandise is fine, as yes...WOS did raise the bar as far as figure line longeivty and sales. I just cant wait to see what Palisades does to raise that bar even further!
     
  5. ZootandDingo

    ZootandDingo Member

    Good strategy by a company? Did I miss something, or has Palisades actually announced these things (not that it matters to me)? I thought Ken's post was merely hypothetical.

    I can't apologize for pointing out an (as you call it) "argument" that you were expecting. I'm not a mindreader, yet. I think it's a realistic concern even if you don't....and my concern is for Palisades, not the Muppets (as said already, there have been tons of Muppet products...BUT, not all from the same company!).

    There have been some cool toy lines that have turned to crud because the companies decided to expand them into too many scales, "companion" lines, side projects, etc. I would hate to see the normal 6" Muppet line drop in quality because Palisades was busy focusing on five other sizes of figures.

    I agree with the sentiment that after 25+ years, we can do without smaller figurines for a while.
     
  6. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>I agree with the sentiment that after 25+ years, we can do without smaller figurines for a while<<<

    It's too bad that in the late 90's, the Todd Mcfarlane standard wiped out the consumer thirst for 3-4" figures. sad.
    I liken it to kids weened on phantom menace and attack of the clones...then seeing the original star wars trilogy and thinking its obsolete garbage.
     
  7. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Member

    Umm, I know this was not posted to me, but I'm gunna jump in here. Maybe I'm misreading, tone does get lost in typed text, but it sounds like you're upset, ZootandDingo. I don't think anyone expects an apology for bringing up a valid concern. Just because some of us aren't worried about Palisades spreading itself too thin doesn't mean others of us can't or shouldn't be. Heck, we can bring up absurd concerns around here if we want to. :D Everyone isn't gunna agree, but this place would be pretty dull if we did.

    Personally, I'm not concerned about quality slipping on the regular line. From what I know of Palisades and Ken and Mike--well, they simply wouldn't allow it. They'd delay the new line or do whatever is necessary to maintain their reputation for top notch toys. Delaying the Labs playset is a case in point. They didn't allow the Lab to leave the factory until they were satisfied with Beaker.

    Sure three lines would take more work than one. But isn't their Resident Evil line winding up? I think there may be room for more Muppets without increasing the amount of product Palisades is producing. Besides, maybe Palisades would like to grow-- stretch those spiffy new offices and all.

    Anyway, as Z&D pointed out, this is all specualtion-- Palisades will do what they will do and it will be up tp each of us to buy or not buy as we see fit.
     
  8. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Actually, i raised that argument as soon as we started talking about mini's but you must have missed it. While i am totally for the minis, i do tend to agree with the 'spread-to-thin' argument - even if it isn't true - i wouldn't like people in the magazines and industry to start saying that Palisades are getting as much out of their muppet license as quick as they can because they don't think it will last much longer and i'm pretty sure they would comment like that because it's 'The Muppets' and most people expect them to fail nowdays.

    As with the exclusives and variants, i think there needs to be cleverly worked out gaps between new products being put out, rather than there being something new to get every single month. I would have preferred the Mini's to the Mega's but seeing as the larger figures ARE coming first, i myself would prefer Palisades to wait until say Wave 3 until they start making mini's because it would show they had already made the Muppets line a success and were catering to demand by producing other stuff, rather than anything else.
     
  9. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    >>>Everyone isn't gunna agree, but this place would be pretty dull if we did<<<

    This place dull, naw! ;)

    >>> Delaying the Labs playset is a case in point. They didn't allow the Lab to leave the factory until they were satisfied with Beaker<<<

    Yeah, thats a clear case where Ken and company in the interest of quality...while we might have balked because of the delay, in the end ensured a much better product.

    As for what Luke said, I much would have rather seen minis first, but like Ken stated...these have to be new sculpts rather than just scaled down series 1&2 lines.

    We'll kno wby year's end or so just what other goodies Palisades has coming our way muppet wise.
     
  10. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    It's not really about how much work it would take to produce three lines. It's more about how it looks for Palisades to be rushing out three seperate toy lines based around the Muppets in a short space of time. To someone in the media or licensing biz that would scream desperation and a panic that the license wasn't going to last - that kinda vibe could hurt sales badly because buyers wouldn't touch them. Playmates waited over a year to produce another Simpsons product even though the toys were popular, they spent time building the original regular line up and focusing on that.
     
  11. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    ZootandDingo

    Palisades has quite an investment in this series and have publicly expressed their intention for it to last at least 3 more years. They have a lot riding on that. The three different types of figures would offer a choice and would be aimed at different markets.

    I'm with you, I hope that it doesn't negatively effect the regular line, but how will they know until they try? I say give them a chance with the Mega Beaker. If you don't want it send the message by not buying it. If they see the Beaker isn't faring well they may scrap the megas and any plans for minis. I think the regular line would be the last thing they scrap. No worries here. We could get some really cool items out of this. ;)
     
  12. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Member

    Ah, but who says they are rushing out three lines? The mini line is pure speculation at this point. If Palisades takes on a mini line, there is no reason they have to rush it out the door right away. Development takes time. It would be interesting to know when Palisades began working on Series 1... probably well before we heard about it. I can't remember right at the moment when Mega Beaker is due out, but I don't think it is in the next couple months. I think there is time to develop the main line of figures.

    I also assume Palisades knows a bit more about what they are doing than we do. Just a hunch.... :p
     
  13. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Yeah that was kinda my point exactly that i raised - i was hoping they wouldn't and mentioned my concerns. Mega Beaker is due out at Christmas i think. Palisades have a few Muppet lines for later this year but i don't think the others are supposed to be figure related. To me, three figure lines before the end of this year would be rushing it a bit so i would be hoping for the minis (IF they are doing it) to debut around Wave 3 time.

    Yeah totally, it's not like either of us has a degree in media strategy and has just spent a year studying the toy industry is it ? :p
     
  14. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Luke

    I do agree, Christmas could be too soon for these minis, but I find that very unlikely. It takes months of tooling and approval to realease anything and there have been no peaks at minis yet. I'd bet they'd come out next Summer or in time for Christmas next year. Ken did express that these would be different scuplts if they came to market so that's another plus! And these sets could likely make it into places that the 6 inch and Megas can't. I'm gung-ho for minis! Just not exclusive minis please! LMAO!:)
     
  15. ZootandDingo

    ZootandDingo Member

    Thanks for asking. I guess I was being a tad sarcastic in the post. It just seems like more recently that a few people have been complaining that there's this "You must agree with us" attitude around here. I want to stress that I don't believe that was Jamie's intent, of course, but still I just wanted to convey that a blown off point is still a point nonetheless. :)

    As I said, I hope Palisades can find the resources to pull off another product type, but why go with the obvious? I would rather see the license go as far away from ordinary as possible (which, you can see, it started to do from the get-go).

    I painfully remember the peak of Hasbro's Batman line with 4", 6", 7", 8", 9", and 12" series all out at the same time...and they were all basically the same kind of product, articulated plastic figures. Whoever coined the phrase "Can't have too much of a good thing" obviously never collected a licensed character. :)

    I don't hate the mini-fig idea outright, but I just can't get jazzed about it either sight-unseen.
     
  16. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    ZootandDingo

    I see what you mean. What type of things would you propose Palisades do? I'm not sure how far their contract extends and I have heard that it doesn't cover plush. I hear another thread coming on.

    I wonder if figural mugs would be covered. Now that would kick major butt! A Janice figural mug! Christmas ornaments could possibly be covered too. They did come out with the lunchboxes so there seems to be some non-figure related things they can do.
     
  17. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Member

    No offense intended here, but a degree is not the same as the experience that comes from working one's way up in the industy and running a company. I expect Mike Horn has studied the toy industry for quite some time. Ken as well. Plus, they've put out product before, and successfully.

    I am NOT knocking anyone's experience or knowledge (I expect you know a lot more about the industry than I do), just pointing out that Palisades isn't flying by the seat of their pants.

    Every view, so long as it is respectful of others, is valid! Personally, I don't think Jamie was blowing off your point, I think it just isn't a concern for him. (Sorry Jamie, don't mean to speak for you.) Doesn't mean it isn't a valid concern for others and I think Palisades has considered this. Ken's post indicates that at least he has thought about a mini line and I'm sure market concerns and maintaining quality are the top issues invovled in considering a new line.
     
  18. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Just pointing out that not all of us are working 'blind' here and have worked our way up in very similar industries and even dealt with the same companies as Palisades. This kind of promotion is the same whether you are talking TV, Music, Celebrities, Print Media, Toys or any other kind of entertainment and being a very small company without any kind of promotion people onboard right now, it's easy for them not to know about things that could lead to opportunities that would (and have) been missed otherwise. Pointing them in a possible right direction can only benefit the Muppet fans - and if you look back on the last year a large majority of things happening with the line have been directly influenced by the fans and Palisades pretty much have been 'flying by the seat of their pants' in some areas.

    This is not any kind of comment against you specifically, but it's easy to think that just because someone comes here and openly says what they do, it puts them a step above the general fans. Being relatively new you probably have yet to discover who else may be lurking around Muppet Central as a 'general fan' giving their input - it would suprise you, believe me. Not everything hinges on Ken's every word.
     
  19. MuppetQuilter

    MuppetQuilter Member

    Come on, Luke, give me some credit. Just because I have been around a year or so doesn't make my views any less valid. I'm glad to see you have experience on the subject and I respect your opinion. All I ask is you respect mine. After all, you don't know what experience I have.
     
  20. Luke

    Luke Active Member

    Annika, I didn't once relate the validity of your views to how long you have been here. I said that not having been here all that long you probably have not been exposed to the 'full picture' of who might frequent this forum and what it has been used for by these people in the past. Ken most certainly isn't the only licensee here though he has been the most visible, he's not the only person involved in Henson stuff, and not the only person with any relevance to what merchandise is made and how it looks. Then of course you also have the fans who have some Henson connection, work someplace else in the industry, or just have an expert knowledge of the Henson company who might bring up something that wasn't thought about and is worthwhile looking into. Fan forums can be very deceptive things, not always as innocent as they look - if you think about Muppetfest time last year you might get an idea of what i mean.

    I don't think i have disprespected your views in any way at all - in fact i kinda felt it was the other way around from what you have said but then the written word always interprets differently to different people. I guess your constant references to Ken and Palisades as if they are the 'know it all' toymakers in the history of the toy universe and would never need help or make a mistake just kinda floor me. They've done a superb job and i'm certainly NOT knocking them, but if they are so perfect and will always make the right decisions, and are so expert on this Muppet line that nothing is a worry, then why on earth do you think they are here everyday asking so many freakin questions ?
     


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