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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BobThePizzaBoy, Jul 29, 2010.
Finally watched it last night. So awesome! Especially the music.
Got another one: Glory, the civil war movie with Matthew Broderick, Denzal Washington, Cary Elwes, and Morgan Freeman. That beats the pants out of so called "masterpieces" such as The Dark Knight.
The score by James Horner is outstanding.
The worst part of it, if I can remember, it was during the Oscar season, and all the slightly big half Multiplex type theaters were ALL showing special showings of movies they refused to air in the first place. So I couldn't even see Producers there. The limited release killed them. And Rent sucks. That got a slightly better release.
Okay, you know what's OVERrated? This whole retroactive hating of the Chris Nolan Batman movies. Come on. We're getting absolutely bludgeoned with all these lame Super Hero comic book movies with characters that the general public thinks they just found out about. I mean, they made a Jonah Hex movie and it bombed. The general public doesn't know who or what Jonah Hex is. And most of them are just mindless Pop corn films at the hands of toy companies. Who do you think ruined Spider-Man 3 by shoving way too many villains into it? We might as well get one GOOD Super Hero/comic book movie while we're at it.
Secondly, after all the crap that Joel Shoemaker (which really SHOULD have been his career choice) pulled with the Batman Franchise, turning Two-Face into the Joker, absolutely everything that happened with Batman and Robin... treating the gritty Tim Burton movies like the 1960's cartoon series... You know how many missteps they had with Batman after that? And while Batman Begins made a modest amount of money, they could very well have tossed it into the same "forget about it" pile the Superman Returns movie (which was supposed to also save that respective franchise) was thrown into. And by actually waiting it out, they made a sequel much MORE successful that the first. If they only gave Superman another chance.... they wouldn't need to scrape the bottom of the barrel for comic book films.
Yes, the Civil War movie was brilliant, but can't we also have a great superhero film too? Not any more toy and video game cross promotion first crap like Batman and Robin and Spider-Man 3?
I'm not into the whole superhero film thing, so I don't watch them when they come out. Superhero movies have run their course and need to go away. Give me a movie with good characters and a good story. I don't need flashy effects or a bunch of crazy action scenes. That's maybe why I think The Wizard of Oz, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Twelve Angry Men were some of the best films I've seen.
The Dark Knight, when I watched it several more times, was better than I expected. However, I still think it's an overblown film, just like Avatar and Titanic. But I know what you're trying to say. Hollywood just passes out superhero movies like it's nothing to them and most of the time they're mindless shady films with too many special effects that dumb down the audience.....You can say the same thing with most of the stuff Hollywood is churning out now a days.
Back to the topic at hand......
Lone Star was a very, very, very underrated film that came out in 1996. That's another movie that was about characters, acting, and story telling. I highly recommend the film to anyone. It stars Chris Cooper, Matthew McConauhey, and I believe Powers Boothe.
That's what bugs me. Super Hero movies do deserve to be made... problem is, we're not getting super heroes that deserve movies, or ones that do, but get really bad ones (Fantastic 4). Some of these characters just work better in animated form.
As for the Dark Knight, I think the problem is the oversaturization of junky comic book popcorn geek chic fare, it's starting to blend in. Add the fact that there are so many crappy movies that are overhyped that take away from movies that actually deserve the hype they got. I still say DK at least gets super hero movies RIGHT. They dealt with multiple villains in both films, but they came across as natural. Like the thugs Batman would actually face in a single day. Twoface wasn't even acknowledged as Twoface, and I give them credit for keeping his appearance in the movie under wraps. They didn't even have figures of him until well after the film came out. Meanwhile, no lie, Venom was only in Spidey 3 so they could sell toys. And a LOT of Spidey fans weren't happy with the portrayal and even inclusion of that character.
As far as the comic movie goes, it is all boom booms and fake geek chic and X-Box 360 games... why can't we have ones like DK that are actually smartly written on TOP of the boom booms? I give Watchmen credit in that aspect, but it's something someone ELSE said and something someone ELSE had already written smartly. But at least Burger King toys weren't the first thing they thought of when making it.
And yes, we would all like to see those hand crafted old timey movies, but even then when Hollywood tries to make those sorts of movies, they ONLY do so to win awards that forcefully push an agenda to make them look like they care, all the while being able to churn out right wing action films that actually make money and the ones people actually watch. I want to see a movie that wins an Oscar that isn't criticizing a war 5 years after it's not controversial to do so, or anything else like that. Precious didn't win, and that was by far a film that had something more important to say. And organically.
I actually think Batman Begins was horrible in trying to deal with two villians. It was more of how Bruce Wayne became Batman type of film with the villians being secondary characters trying to cause some mayhem who were boring.
I think for Two-Face, the writers should have made the character get crazier as the movie goes on, showing Harvey Dent becoming more unstable from all the pressure that is being placed upon him until he finally snaps and Two-Face emerges and the Harvey Dent is lone gone.
I don't believe super hero movies or any type of movie have run their course as long as there's a story to tell and a quality team leading the project. It's easy to lump everything together because many films deserve that, but I also fear blanket statements. Either way, we're getting comic book films for years to come. Some will be good, some won't.
I think when it comes to comic book based movies, there inlies the problem... people generally think Comic book=Super Hero, and Marvel and DC have too strong a hold in that market for any smaller, independent comic super guys to get their chance in there. Sure, we had Kickanus and Scott Pilgrim manage to break through that ground, but there's just SOOOOO much weird and wild stuff that deserves the big screen treatment. A The Tick movie is SCREAMING to be made. Dude needs a come back from that TV show and bad.
Not to mention the fact that comic book movies aren't all super hero movies. Persepolis? That was a comic book movie (and highly HIGHLY underrated for the look alone. I'm kicking myself for never going to actually see in in theaters and waiting for video). Even that Harvey Peakar movie was based in comics. And if there are 3 non-Super Hero type comic movies that need to be made... Usagi Yojimbo, Groo the Wanderer, and a Disney Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck (NOT Ducktales. There should be NO Launchpad or Webby anywhere near there) all need some sort of treatment as far as I'm concerned.
But on that note getting back to the subject... underrated comic book movies? Simple... All the animated Lucky Luke and Asterix movies. At least here... and I don't know about the live action ones. I heard the last Live action Asterix film did gangbusters, but it also won the European equivalent of a Razzie Award. I would say, I highly recommend Asterix in Britain, The 12 tasks of Asterix, and Surprise at Caesar (or something like that) the most. As for Lucky Luke... only saw the first 2, and I recommend Ballad of the Daltons over Daisy Town.
Also on that note... The First and fourth TMNT movies. The second one, I'll deal in overrated movies, and the Third one, while I don't think it deserves some of the chastising it gets, I think a certain amount of the chastising fits. At least Casey was back in there. But the first one showed how to get a comic book movie done right. Yet no one considers it a comic book movie. Cartoon got in the way. Sure, they gave April her cartoon job (news reporter... no way they could make her a scientist), and changed up a few things here and there for the sake of the story.... but they managed to keep the tone of the comics and just blend in a teeny tiny amount of the cartoon series that made it popular... all while being a separate entity itself.
Meanwhile the fourth one REALLY didn't get the respect it deserved, not even from the fan base. I guess too many people wanted a "Let's go out and beat up Shredder for 90 minutes" movie. They took a story line that would have came right out of Tales of TMNT (the side comic) and managed to make a decent floating sequel without turning it into a lame revenge plot, managing to get Karai into the movie without dumbing it down and explaining her to everyone. it almost felt like an episode of the last TMNT series. But with much higher budget. Too bad that it got a PG rating, when we all know PG is basically just a souped up G rating nowadays.
Run their course? What exactly are you basing this statement on? The fact that they're a lucrative property, have made several billion dollars, and have recieved good reception (most of them anyway) would hardly suggest that they've "run their course".
As for giving us good characters and story, a good number of them do just that. It all comes down to personel taste, but to say they're at their end is really, rather inaccurate and assuming way too much.
Exactly how I feel. Again, it's oversaturization. Look at Elmo. Would we collectively dislike him as much if he was only on one or two episodes a season, and didn't hijack a 15 minute segment of the show? For me, it all comes down to quality. I was never impressed by the X-Men movies... I heard terrible things about Wolverine, and I desperately want Disney to yank the agreement with Fox over those characters. Plus, we're really getting so many at once, studios are having to gamble with lesser known ones. Iron Man? No one expected that to be a hit. other than the ACDC song, he isn't referenced all that much. Spidey, Wolvie, Hulkster, Supes, and Bats are the only ones the common general public knows. They've been on TV and referenced everywhere forever. DC tried a Jonah Hex movie. If I didn't see that Batman TAS episode, I wouldn't know who he was.
That said, considering Dark Knight did leaps and bounds over Batman Begins, I'm disappointed they didn't give Supes a second chance after Superman Returns didn't do as well as they hoped it would have, but it was far from a real flop. There was to be a Justice League movie, but that died when the strike happened. Wonder Woman is left in limbo, no thanks to more studio shenanigans... something about not making a female the star of an action movie no thanks to stink films like Aeon Fluxx and Underworld. And yet, I find it ridiculous they would think a Jonah hex movie would take off. Maybe it's because they had to turn it into a Megan Fox sexy sexy picture.
Well, Warner Bros. does intend to make a new Superman movie that Christopher Nolan will be producing. Also I've heard rumors that they do hope to make a Justice League movie in a similar vein to Marvel's Avengers movie.
As for Joneh Hex, it may have been flop (critically and financially) but at least it shows that WB are finally branching out beyond just Superman and Batman. Hopefully Green Lantern will be a better hit for them.
Back to the topic at hand...
Doug's First(and apparently only) Movie- Now, I get the whole Nick Doug > Disney Doug... but I'm one of the few people that actually liked Disney Doug, albeit to a lesser extent... but not that lesser. Anyway, it manages to spend the movie resolving a running theme in the (Disney) series, the Monster of Lucky Duck lake. And of course, they managed to fit Quayleman into the film... and that's major points with me.
I'll have to agree with you, but only ever so slightly. This movie is one I have attachment to from my early high school years. During freshmen year, I wrote this really dumb movie script to annoy my friend that was essentially Doug's 1st Movie word-for-word with all the names changed to become a parody of that Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide show that was on Nickelodeon at the time (why I thought Ned and Doug would mesh, beats me...) and then we finally sat down and watched the movie at his house one night with his thirteen year old sister in tow and we just tore the movie to shreds MST3K style. We still make jokes about Guy three years later ("I told you Doug was a liar, now kiss me!"). So this is one I have personal attachment to. To be fair, it's still a pleasant movie I guess.
But it really doesn't have the same heft as Recess: School's Out or Teacher's Pet. Now those 2 films were pretty deep. I really do love Recess's film. Especially Mrs. Finster's action hero line "HEY! Teacher! leave them kids alone!"
real quick about Dark Knight....first i love the film but i feel what gave it more of the Hype was the Passing of Heath Ledger...i "argue" with my friend that once it was known this was his last full film that people who were never going to go see it filled the theatres just the see Heath Ledger
I know a lot of people believe that the death of Ledger was the main contributing factor of Dark Knight's success, but I'm not that morbid-minded. I looked forward to seeing his remarkable effort long before he passed. Also, this is the closest live action telling of the iconic character in my view. I love Jack Nicholson and his Joker, but that version was akin to a theme park caricature rather than a true embodiment. I admire both films for different reasons. No one can beat the visual style of Burton’s Batman…ever.
Every blockbuster film is overrated by its very nature, but if there’s a recent successful film that’s deserving of such saturated praise it’s The Dark Knight. It’s such a robust cinematic experience. I always feel that most pictures could be leaner and this one is no exception, but there isn’t more than 5 minutes that I’d have cut. That says something seeing how I would have gutted the last Lord of the Rings film. I understand why they included the last 20 minutes, but they were needless to the cinematic experience and best suited for DVD extras.
On another note, I found Nolan’s Inception to be extremely overrated and it’s my least favorite of his otherwise fantastic filmography to date. It was enjoyable, but not noteworthy.
There are just SOOOOO many ways to interpret a character like the Joker. And I really think TDK managed to make him the more dark sociopathic variety you'd see in more recent comics. For me, my top three Jokers have to be Caesar Romero, Mark Hamil and Heath Ledger. Jack being honorable mention. Honestly, the fact that he's dead had nothing to do with why I liked his Joker... he just played it his own way (or at least Nolan's way) and it was different than what the common movie goer and casual Batfan would come to expect. That said, there was NO call for Tommy Lee Jones's Twoface to be a surrogate Joker in Batman Forever. They basically made him an over the top cartoony Joker-esque partner for the Riddler, instead of making him the dark, angry figure he really is. At least Dark Knight managed to do him justice for the small amount of time he was on the screen.
But on the subject of Batman movies, the most underrated ones were made as big screen versions of TV shows... Batman 1966 (Howlingly funny, almost too good to be camp... "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!") and Batman Mask of the Phantasm (which I never saw... and I REALLY wanted to when it was on the big screen), one of the few times a cartoon that had been on the air had a theatrically released movie.
Really... Japan kicks our butts at that. I'd see even a third rate Saturday Morning cartoon I sort of like on the big screen if I had the chance.
Didn't see that, but it seems he must've borrowed HEAVILY from the Japanese film Paprika, which I finally got the chance to see. One of the wildest films ever, crazy mind screwing stuff. Plus, well... there's a rumor going around that he might have also stole (or at least unwittingly paralleled) an old Scrooge McDuck comic, in which the Beagles steal a machine of Gyro's (also intended for Psychiatric use) to go into Scrooge's dreams and get Scrooge to tell him the combination of his vault safe. There was some stupid link on Yahoo or something, and one thing lead to another, I read the whole thing online. Great read, by the way.
But did Inception even do all that well? I hardly noticed anything really successful this year, as Hollywood fumbled yet again, putting everything out in May and June, leaving July a barren month.
Inception has made $700M worldwide and 280 of that is US box office. I found it entertaining, but forgettable.
Burton's entire introduction of the Joker was incorrect and Nicholson admitted that he let the makeup do most of the performance for him. I suppose that's why it was more surface-oriented. The Joker really isn't supposed to even have one particular origin nor are we ever to know his real name. But if he did have an origin, it was not as the man who killed Bruce's parents.
The superhero film that was over-hyped, underperformed and therefore is now underrated was last year's Watchmen. It wasn't perfect, but it is a beautiful piece of cinema that few audience members could really appreciate.
im not saying thats why everyone went to see it , but i feel that a small chunk did...i could be wrong...im a huge batman fan so i also was waiting for the movie before Heath Ledger died
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