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Your Thoughts: TMS Season 1 DVD

Discussion in 'Muppet Merchandise' started by Phillip, Aug 6, 2005.

?

Because there are scenes edited from The Muppet Show DVDs:

  1. I am no longer buying the set

    6 vote(s)
    5.3%
  2. I haven't decided yet

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  3. I'm still buying the set

    100 vote(s)
    87.7%

  1. Squigiman

    Squigiman Active Member

    I'm not going to not buy the set. Heck, I'm opening my store, tomorrow, which is right across from an FYE, so I'll get the first dibs. At the same time, however, I disagree with the "So what?" reasoning. If we are being promised certain things we should get them. All of this legality and ABC prooduct with CBS logo and whatever, is a bunch of BS, and whether it has to happen these days or not is just annoying. Don't mistake me, I am incredibly overjoyed that we will be getting the first season of one of the finest shows to grace television, BUT it should be treated as such and not relegated to cuts because of petty garbage like a rival network's logo.

    If the cover advertises Jim Henson's original promotional pitch reel, we should get it, not a chopped up, butchered version of it. The one line makes all the difference. We won't be offered these episodes in more complete form, elsewhere, now that it's Disney that owns the rights. It's not the other way around with the Time-Life situation, releasing full episodes in no particular order, and then getting an order but cut episodes. We won't see these again, so these should be DEFINITIVE.

    That's what DVDs were made for, folks. TV Box sets were especially made for collectors and completists. Disney can release, via Buena Vista, a set of Fantastic Four cartoon episodes, chronologically, featuring the entire series, including an episode where the first image is the World Trade Center exploding, but the CBS logo and Kermit mentioning "H E L L" is too much??? Come one! This, pre-Baywatch, was the most widely syndicated show, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, it deserves a little more respect. It's sad to say, but I guess it's off to MySpleen I go, as they have the entire run, as well as other tidbits that'll probably never see the light of day on a DVD. Let's just hope they do better for the later and better seasons, like ridding the world of their introductory previews of non-related Disney stuff, and giving bonus features, including every commercial produced, to each individual episode. I don't know if chapter selection is included or not, but maybe Disney, believe it or not, could actually learn a thing or two from Time-Life.


    -Squigiman
  2. Kimp the Shrimp

    Kimp the Shrimp Active Member

    well it's a shame you will deny yourself the joy that is TMS
  3. That Announcer

    That Announcer New Member

    Exactly. If you're making a big fuss over five lost scenes and specifically noticing that they're gone, what you're NOT noticing is the wonderful entertainment that would be playing out before you. I agree with Sugarbritchez: So what if they cut out five songs. The point is not what isn't there; the point is what is there. And to deny yourself the enjoyment of the great set that will be released tomorrow is absolutely idiotic. The last I checked, Jim Henson's vision was to make "millions of people happy". Now, if you're not going to be happy because five little three-and-a-half minute scenes are missing, you're being obtuse.

    Do you want my advice? OK: Buy the set. Revel in the Robot Kermit, the banana sketch, Gonzo eating his tire, the wisecracks of Statler and Waldorf, Ernie and Bert dancing with Connie Stevens, Bunsen's gorilla detector, Mahna Mahna and the Two Snowths, Mummenschanz's unusual masked theater, the original first season openings, the "Sex and Violence" pilot, the country trio, Dr. Teeth singing "Tenderly" and "Love Ya To Death", the hilarity of "Simon Smith and his Amazing Dancing Bear", the cheesy jokes of "At the Dance", Peter Ustinov portraying a robot Prime Minister, "Halfway Down the Stairs", Piggy and Fozzie's original designs, Wayne and Wanda, the Galley Oh Hoop Hoop, the Muppet Newsman's glasses spinning around his head, and of course, "Bein' Green". Now, that seems like an awful lot of entertainment to miss for the sake of twenty minutes of footage, don't you think?
  4. Zack the Dog

    Zack the Dog Active Member

    Thought I am sorry about the cuts, there is no way i would boycott the dvd in a million years!!! Sure i wish they were un-cut, sure i wish Kermit had his punch line at the end of the pitch real, and sure i wish the Jim Henson Retrospective was on the set.

    Although i still don't understand the reasons why edits have to take place on any show, once's it's part of the show...it's part of the show...should be the motto.;-) but it an't like that. i know. i'm still going to love this set just as much. the bigest puzzlement is why is "You've got a friend on the timelife set and not on this set? but atleast we can have it on timelife, even if it's not in this full set.
  5. BEAR

    BEAR Active Member

    Oh geez. Making such a huge gigantic fuss over little cuts that Disney had no control over is so sad. Why don't you just be greatful to have it in the first place. Atleast we are getting all the episodes. Forgive me, but what a bunch of cry babies. I guess those who want to boycott the DVDs can do what they want, but they will miss out even more. I'd rather have the DVDs how they are because you get more than nothing.
  6. Ernie101

    Ernie101 Active Member


    I really don't think I could've said it better myself. It's alright to be upset about the cuts, but there is so much more there. If you truly love TMS and the empire Jim Henson came to build, then you would try to pick this up. I understand if you just don't want it, but if it's because of the cuts..then that's not supporting the fanbase or the mound of love that has been created over the years by the company. Oh well though, all in all.. I'm buying it..the end.
  7. BEAR

    BEAR Active Member

    The Set hasn't even been released yet, so we will need to wait and see it for ourselves.
  8. rumtar_10165

    rumtar_10165 New Member

    Muppet Show DVD Season 1

    I want to state that I own the video The Muppet Show:Monsterous Laughs.
    and the vincent price episode was cut. Also I have a muppet show that had that lady Rita She was from the Electric Company (a show from the 70's)
    An opening number had her dancing with a french muppet and that number was cut.

    I want others to know that I am a True Muppet fan and even though there are some cuts on the DVD, I am still buying it. I was a little upset that they did not do the retospective on Jim. But I hope that the will keep ther promise that they will have it on the next one, and hopefuly have The Muppets Valentine Show on a seperate dvd. That will be great.
    :) :) :)
  9. Phamos818

    Phamos818 New Member

    I think the cut I'm most upset about is "You've Got a Friend." As it WAS on the TimeLife DVD, that puts the lie to the idea that Disney "had no control over" what was cut and what wasn't. It didn't have to do with anyone not RELEASING the song, it had to do with how much Disney was willing to pay for the rights. OK, obviously they were looking at the profit margins, but this set would still sell incredibly well even if it was $10 more expensive.

    That said, I did buy the set and I did enjoy the fact that they had the original openings. And they had the non-standard ending for the Kaye Ballard episode (though I'm a little confused as to whether the final shot was different to what was originally aired, as I'd never seen it before), so there's hope that the other non-standard endings will be aired on other sets.

    I was surprised by how UNfunny I found "Sex and Violence", which I'd never seen before.

    I don't really understand what the point was of including the pitch reel if they're going to cut out the ending to make it more family friendly. That's pretty dumb.

    Anyway, I've mostly gotten over my grumpiness at the cuts and enjoyed watching all the episodes I'd never seen before. I'm hoping for "Of Muppets and Men" on one of the next sets, as well as (of course) the Muppet Valentine Show.
  10. Squigiman

    Squigiman Active Member

    First and foremost, I don't have to be a moderator to know that the name-calling is ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the whole point of forums such as these are to be able to express and debate those opinions. Let's just not get nasty over it or try to act high and mighty like one IS right and the other IS wrong and that is that. I am a HUUUUUGE Muppet Fan, and have awaited tomorrow for a good part of my life. I will be the first in line to buy it, as so much of it has been unseen by my eyes, and any Muppet material made when Jim was alive is usually, even at its worst, is a thousand times better than what we've had to accept, ever since.

    I will revel in all of the classic bits, just like any other fan. It's not like they cut out Mahna Mahna, though you could argue that it's been available just about everywhere else. Most cuts were lesser things. HOWEVER, I still am greatly angry about them. NOTHING should be cut, and more importantly, we should not be teased with the pitch, when the greatest moment is removed, for whatever petty reason the truth may be. Waiting to tomorrow, buying or not, will not reveal it, though my money is more on the CBS logo than the H-Word. Anyways, I think any self-respecting Muppet fan should buy it, because of the sheer amount and quality contained within.

    This does not mean Disney, who is the one to blame, because when it all comes down to it, they're the ones releasing it, should continue this pattern for the four more chances they have to fix their great mistakes. The pre-sales have shown this as an in-demand item. Eisner, himself, has put Kermit up there with Mickey and Winnie The Pooh (though I feel Kermit belongs in the #2 spot, as Winnie's only who he is, worldwide, because of his ties to Mickey and not Milne), as popular worlwide icons. This includes being CORPORATE icons, as in money-making. Make the money by giving the fans what they want, and ALL of it. At least, unlike an unfortunately foolishly designed shirt I just got, featuring the name, "The Muppet Show", Pepe wasn't digitally added to scenes from the show. Just imagine THAT NIGHTMARE!

    All in all, Disney should do their damndest to make all vintage Jim Muppet material available that they can, including every individual episode-based promo and not just a reel, as well as every episode, as originally broadcast, even if they need to tag "Muppets Holding Company" on the end for legal purposes. I think we all want the same thing, when it comes down to it. We will all get what we can get our hands on, if we want it that much. However, some just seem to want it all, having the knowledge of it's existence, and find it unfair to be denied such greatness, despite other greatness being finally sent our way. Would you want to get Sam without his Friends? I thought not.


    -Squigiman
  11. BEAR

    BEAR Active Member

    Do we have any information as to why some of the songs were cut? Is it because they can't get the rights for it? Someone please answer this for me. Thanks. I want to be able to understand.
  12. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    I just want to point out: DISNEY NEVER PROMISED THE EPS WOULD BE UNCUT. What they said was "Completely restored and remastered". That means audio and visual, folks. Even GelflingWaldo posted on his blog The Muppet Newsflash that he hadn't gotten a straight answer about the eps being uncut. So Disney didn't lie. They didn't advertise the truth, but they were far from lying.

    Possible reasons for cuts:
    - Music rites
    - Network rivalry (pitch reel) (see next point)
    - Companies refusing to give rights. Doesn't matter the sum of money that's offered, they still don't have to give rights up
    - Old masters being used (like how Vincent Price episode can be seen on home releases both uncut and cut

    People in general:
    If you refuse to buy the set, you are cheaping yourself out of a really good buy. You are messing up potential chances for more sets, since sales won't be as high. If your attitude is, "I'll wait till they get it perfect, then I'll buy", they you'll never end up buying. Things will always go wrong when it comes to this kind of stuff, and chances are you'll never be happy, or you'll never get a chance to be happy if future sets aren't made. Darnit, everything that's missing can be found on the internet by someone. So do muppet fans worldwide a favour: buy the darn set. If you don't you're messing up potential future releases, and then noone is happy. And just download the uncut ones. Sure the set won't perfect, but if you set your standards are set too high, nothing will be. And count yourself lucky we're getting this at all.
  13. That Announcer

    That Announcer New Member

    This is where a straw-man argument may come into play. A straw-man, for those of you who don't know, involves stating a weakened version of an argument and attacking it, as you might do with a scarecrow. As MrsPepper said, Disney never promised that the episodes would be uncut. I'll give you a quote from Greg's site:

    Hmmm, sounds like Disney really tried to get those song rights, wouldn't you agree? Also, they never said that the episodes would be uncut, but they said they'd try to make sure that they were. There was no promise on Disney's part to make the episodes uncut. So, don't accuse them of not trying, or of not trying hard enough, because they really did.
  14. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    Thanks, TA. Knew I could count on ya. ;)
  15. That Announcer

    That Announcer New Member

    Same to you. :D
  16. MrBlud

    MrBlud New Member

    Just a couple thoughts.

    1) For the people who don't seem to understand the fuss with the missing musical numbers, how would you feel if Disney made the set faux widescreen? Just cutting "a little" off the top and bottom to make it fit a widescreen monitor?

    2) I'm miffed about the missing stuff, in fact, I would've simply preferred a warning screen (this episode is missing "such and such song") be shown before the opening and then the skit in question would simply be silent or absent the song. That way we still get the performance even if it isn't the full one.

    3) I'm still going to buy the set and I'm still going to enjoy it. The missing stuff isn't the end of the world, but I'm disappointed we don't get to see any of it.
  17. That Announcer

    That Announcer New Member

    Well, I'd disagree with that, but it's a bit of a fallacy in that musical numbers are not missing from every episode, but matting would significantly alter all 24 episodes.
  18. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    Making it faux widescreen would be the result of a choice someone would make. Having musical numbers missing wasn't a choice, it was a lack of options. I doubt Michael Eisner was all, "HEY, let's mess with muppet fans and cut out that last chunk off the Vincent Price episode!"
    Also on an unrelated but amusing note, if Disney DID release TMS in widescreen, why couldn't they release MTI that way? Heehee! ;)

    Edit: spelled "chunk" wrong. ^_^
  19. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Okay...so the dvds have cuts. This is too late to change. So the practical question is...what do we do about them? To buy or not to buy?

    My reccomendation is buy the dvds. Show your support for the fact that (cuts aside), Disney did largely try to put something very special together...how long have we dreamed for season box sets with all these fabulous extras?

    BUT...if you are upset about the cuts...LET DISNEY KNOW!!! Write, call, email (or all of the above). Say that you are upset about the cuts and request that Disney work harder at obtaining the stuff that was cut and if at all possible to include the stuff that was cut from this set in future sets (One thing that i don't think anyone here has brought up...it may be possible that Disney did everything they could to obtain the music rights for the cut material but were up against time...they cut have held back the release date which they figured would make more people upset. Encourage them to continue to get the appropriate clearances and get the cut stuff available on future sets.)

    I will say (and i encourage people to mention this when they contact Disney) that for the powerhouse lawyers Disney are supposed to have, they really dropped the ball here. Since these episodes were already made and broadcast (and in some cases released) in other formats, they should be able to make the arguement that in being that the permission had already been granted to use the music for the original episodes, that that in itself should suffice...that the rights were granted to use the music in that episode and that should cover any and all future airings and releases. I would also point out that you mention that a precedent (and DO use that very word, "Precedent") exists in releasing the episodes uncut, reminding Disney of the Time-Life releases.

    I very much reccomend letting Disney know of your displeasure. When they release something uncut once, it gets very easy to continue the trend...they may have pulled some hairs in frustration, but when it comes around to season two (or season five) they may just shrug their shoulders and say "They bought 'em anyway, they don't care...why should we work so hard?" They should know Muppet fans don't like Jim's vision being mucked with. Flood them with calls, letters, and emails. But at the same time, don't forget to be polite no matter how mad you are. Thank them for releasing the dvd's to begin with...make sure they know the specific issue you're upset with and why. If your letter is too angry or disrespectful, they will disregard them as being from a lunatic; respectful, thoughtful letters get things done (especially when they're in mass volume.)

    Finally to clear up some confusion...yes when (USA) Nickelodeon aired the Muppet Show they made some cuts, sometimes juggling the order of sketches and even mixing in stuff from other episodes...but these cuts were made for the purpose of time...they didn't have (or want to give) the full 25 and a half minutes...they cut down their episodes to 24 minutes and left six minutes for commercials (which to their credit is still more than most USA networks which allow 23 and a half minutes like the original syndicated versions.)

    For what it's worth, when i contact Disney, i'll also be requesting that future box sets contain the Brian Henson intros and all the promos...and ask that the intros and promos left off this set be included in future sets.
  20. MrBlud

    MrBlud New Member

    A bit of a fallacy, but the intent is still the same.

    We end up with less then 24 complete episodes.

    As long as people understand BOTH sides are pretty much right.

    It sucks the stuff is cut, but not buying the set is WAYYYY overreacting IMO.

    Why not simply remove the song or, failing that, all the sound but leave the picture?

    That would've been preferable IMO.

    Good idea, I'd also wish they'd leave in the skits even if they must remove the music.


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